# What if we have a truly contested election? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 4, 2016, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-have-a-truly-contested-election/767623 "2016-10-04T10:24:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-have-a-truly-contested-election/767623/41 "2016-10-10T16:34:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > We have had other threads that address the argument you raise above. > > In this particular thread, I addressed **septimus** ’ claim that “Wisconsin’s state lawyers committed perjury,” and were “…reprimanded for that…” Yes, and you were correct to do so on that specific claim. Anyway, as you say, this particular topic has other threads. On the original topic of _this_ thread, I daresay legal challenges are inevitable. Trump’s personal history, including 1900 lawsuits in which he or one of his companies were plaintiffs, suggests he views litigation as just another business practice. I’d be genuinely astonished if he accepts election defeat without pursuing litigation, and a _lot_ of litigation across multiple states, whether the election was close or not. The merits of his lawsuits won’t matter and he has near-bottomless reserves to call on, even if the Republican Party itself declines to participate. If Trump actually _wins_, or it looks like he might have won, then you’ve got far bigger problems to deal with. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-have-a-truly-contested-election/767623/42 "2016-10-10T17:18:12Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > If Trump actually _wins_, or it looks like he might have won, then you’ve got far bigger problems to deal with. Do you mean that a Trump victory is more likely to result in a Constitutional crisis than a Clinton victory? Or do you mean something broader that a Trump administration would cause “far bigger problems” for the country? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-have-a-truly-contested-election/767623/43 "2016-10-10T17:58:17Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you mean that a Trump victory is more likely to result in a Constitutional crisis than a Clinton victory? Or do you mean something broader that a Trump administration would cause “far bigger problems” for the country? I mean if that happens, you’ve got more than half the electorate who would rather burn the country than live in it, and all that entails. At best, you might have a lot of people who thought voting for Trump was a protest and hadn’t thought through the consequences of him winning, rather like some later-regretful Brexit voters. It’ll be mourning in America. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-have-a-truly-contested-election/767623/44 "2016-10-10T18:40:18Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Yes, and you were correct to do so on that specific claim. > > Anyway, as you say, this particular topic has other threads. On the original topic of _this_ thread, I daresay legal challenges are inevitable. Trump’s personal history, including 1900 lawsuits in which he or one of his companies were plaintiffs, suggests he views litigation as just another business practice. I’d be genuinely astonished if he accepts election defeat without pursuing litigation, and a _lot_ of litigation across multiple states, whether the election was close or not. The merits of his lawsuits won’t matter and he has near-bottomless reserves to call on, even if the Republican Party itself declines to participate. The thought just occurred to me: I would not be surprised that Trump will attempt to use his non-concession or to say that he would “drop his legal challenges” as a bargain chip to get a better deal from the government. Regarding a lot of his shady deals or his exploding legal issues. When the Trump family has demonstrated to not know what a blind trust is, this is not so far-fetched; notice that I think that Trump will “attempt” to do it, that it would be crazy is something that will not stop him. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-have-a-truly-contested-election/767623/45 "2016-10-10T18:54:59Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The thought just occurred to me: > > I would not be surprised that Trump will attempt to use his non-concession or to say that he would “drop his legal challenges” as a bargain chip to get a better deal from the government. Regarding a lot of his shady deals or his exploding legal issues. > > When the Trump family has demonstrated to not know what a blind trust is, this is not so far-fetched; notice that I think that Trump will “attempt” to do it, that it would be crazy is something that will not stop him. Interesting, but while I can see him trying to salvage something of personal gain out of election defeat, I’m not sure how he’d do it. I _can_ picture that any legal investigation of Trump after November, even if wholly unrelated to the campaign, will be called “retaliatory” or “persecution”, and a way to try to keep him from running again and _totally_ winning like he would have in 2016 if the system wasn’t rigged against him, but he’ll be back, you can bet on that! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-have-a-truly-contested-election/767623/46 "2016-10-10T19:16:42Z")
The Trumpire Strikes Back! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-have-a-truly-contested-election/767623/47 "2016-10-16T05:08:40Z")
> **[Warnings of conspiracy stoke anger among Trump faithful - The Boston Globe](https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2016/10/15/donald-trump-warnings-conspiracy-rig-election-are-stoking-anger-among-his-followers/LcCY6e0QOcfH8VdeK9UdsM/story.html)** This is getting pretty serious. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-have-a-truly-contested-election/767623/48 "2016-10-16T10:35:38Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > This is getting pretty serious. Not really. There will always be wackos. The last several elections you could find some small fraction of people who said these things. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-have-a-truly-contested-election/767623/49 "2016-10-16T12:37:46Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Not really. There will always be wackos. The last several elections you could find some small fraction of people who said these things. But now you’ve got candidates egging them on, validating what they are saying. That’s the difference, and it’s not an insignificant one. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-have-a-truly-contested-election/767623/50 "2016-10-16T13:33:03Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > But now you’ve got candidates egging them on, validating what they are saying. That’s the difference, and it’s not an insignificant one. But in the end, it will be the same noise with no impact. Why do you think that Trump’s rhetoric will turn into action? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-have-a-truly-contested-election/767623/51 "2016-10-16T16:50:05Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > But in the end, it will be the same noise with no impact. Why do you think that Trump’s rhetoric will turn into action? This election is unlike anything we’ve ever seen. Never have we had a presidential nominee declare civil war on his own party. The official leadership of the republican party are Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell, and even though they know their candidate is a disaster, they are powerless. They say nothing. They fear Trump, and they fear his voters. They hope that Trump is a fire that burns itself out. But Trump is already suggesting that he and his millions – **millions** – of supporters will refuse to see the election results as legitimate. They can file suits. They can claim voter fraud. They could intimidate the electors themselves. There is no command and control within the republican party to confront Trump. Moreover, if the House and Senate flip, who’s to say that others might not similarly cast doubt on the results. The republican party knows it’s endangered. They have no ethics. Voter suppression and impeachment are two examples that show that the GOP have long held anti-democratic views. I could see a fractured republican party declaring a significant portion of the 2016 races invalid. It seems crazy but think of all of the crazy we’ve endured up to this point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-have-a-truly-contested-election/767623.md?page=2)