# What if we just blew up our enemies? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 31, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-just-blew-up-our-enemies/541395 "2010-05-31T16:25:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-just-blew-up-our-enemies/541395/21 "2010-05-31T21:55:05Z")
> [@Scotty Mo](#): > > … > But what’s stopping us? If we pull it off, we get all their oil and don’t have to deal with crazy Muslims anymore. (assuming we kill off enough of them.) we write the history books and say they started it. It all works out in our favor. So then when the question of illegal immigrants gets raised the cheapest solution would be to simply nuke Mexico out of existance. Win the war on drugs by nuking Latin American, nuke Canada because Toronto pinched the World Series and winning the ice hockey Olympic Gold would be really neat. Then you have those dammed commies in the People’s Republic of Santa Monica. Those whinging rednecks in Alabama who want The Cause to be revived and shithey wouldn’t that be a effective way to clear out some of those intractable urban slums? And the missiles are just sitting there … it’s cheaper to use them than keep them in storage. Win-Win-Win. And at some stage you’ll need to take the Typex to the Declaration of Independence before you quote from it again such as: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all American Citizens are created equal, that they are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are the American way of life, liberty and the pursuit of self-gratification.” ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-just-blew-up-our-enemies/541395/22 "2010-05-31T22:18:49Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > What makes you think that’s the only reason they want to kill us? We’ve worked hard to demonstrate to the people of the Middle East (and elsewhere) that we are their enemy, for reasons that have nothing to do with religion. Hatred of America is a rational position for much of the world. > > And if we start nuking people because they are Muslim, the number of “crazy” Muslims will expand to be pretty much all of them. So will the number of “crazy” Hindus, Christians, atheists, you name it. Yeah that’s pretty much all true… I know I said nuke but didn’t mean it so literally. More of just an overall devastation of the place mostly through bombing. Simply to show we are not to be f’d with. And then no more after. Perhaps immediately after 9/11 wouldve been better timing for this. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-just-blew-up-our-enemies/541395/23 "2010-05-31T22:41:12Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > What makes you think that’s the only reason they want to kill us? We’ve worked hard to demonstrate to the people of the Middle East (and elsewhere) that we are their enemy, for reasons that have nothing to do with religion. Hatred of America is a rational position for much of the world. > > And if we start nuking people because they are Muslim, the number of “crazy” Muslims will expand to be pretty much all of them. So will the number of “crazy” Hindus, Christians, atheists, you name it. Yeah that’s pretty much all true and more than likely… I know I said nuke but didn’t mean it so literally. More of just an overall devastation of the place mostly through bombing. Simply to show we are not to be f’d with. And then no more after. Perhaps immediately after 9/11 wouldve been better timing for this. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-just-blew-up-our-enemies/541395/24 "2010-06-01T00:00:52Z")
The OP seems completely ignorant of political and military realities. Our “enemies” are not soverign nation states but networks of terrorist groups. And they tend to dispurse themselves among civilian populations. So to “blow them up” you would need to kill millions of innocent people and most likely it would just make the problem worse. You would create thousands more terrorists and they would just dispurse themselves among other nations. And how would you “blow them up” anyway? The United States dropped more that 7 million tons of bombs in Vietnam. That’s about 3.5x the tonnage dropped in all of WWII and about a thousand pounds of explosives for every man, woman and child living in Vietnam. Clearly not all problems can solved with explosives. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-just-blew-up-our-enemies/541395/25 "2010-06-01T00:05:04Z")
> [@Scotty Mo](#): > > Yeah that’s pretty much all true and more than likely… > > I know I said nuke but didn’t mean it so literally. More of just an overall devastation of the place mostly through bombing. Simply to show we are not to be f’d with. And then no more after. > > Perhaps immediately after 9/11 wouldve been better timing for this. You mean like how we attacked Iraq? The people of the ME already know we are amorally, randomly homicidal and don’t regard their lives as worth anything; killing more is unnecessary to prove the point. We’ll kill them for profit, or for power, or just for fun and they know it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-just-blew-up-our-enemies/541395/26 "2010-06-02T08:38:21Z")
I look forward to the development of Scanners technology… ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-just-blew-up-our-enemies/541395/27 "2010-06-02T17:13:14Z")
> [@Scotty Mo](#): > > First, let me start by apologizing for this thread in advance. I don’t necessarily hold these views but was just something I was pondering. (sure I’m gonna be pretty wrong here anyways.) > > But would it be possible to completely dominate some of the middle east countries (Iraq, afghanistan) that are causing us so much trouble. In my slightly uneducated viewpoint, we are far stronger than these other countries. We should be able to bomb, capture and basically take over their country and all it’s resources. > > Now I think the biggest reason opposing this would be fear of retaliation. Middle east countries could potentially bomb us (not sure how likely) and that would obviously be a very bad thing. Human compassion would come second because I think a significant portion would get behind the idea. > > But what’s stopping us? If we pull it off, we get all their oil and don’t have to deal with crazy Muslims anymore. (assuming we kill off enough of them.) we write the history books and say they started it. It all works out in our favor. > > Again, I don’t really support this idea it’s just a thought. Perhaps I’m missing something, but isn’t the strategy that you’re describing here exactly what the United States has done in the Middle East for a long time? We’ve invaded countries, mass slaughtered the population, tortured huge numbers of innocent people, installed puppet dictatorships, and/or seized oil fields by force in many middle-eastern countries: Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Kuwait, … What exact changes are you envisioning that are different than what the United States currently does? Also, why do you describe people who are “willing to kill us” as “crazies”? 236 years ago Americans noted that our land was occupied by hostile British soldiers. Luckily we were willing to kill those soldiers and continue doing so until the British departed and agreed to let us be an independent nation. Similarly the Iraqis and Afghans have noticed their country occupied by hostile American soldiers. Luckily they are willing to kill those soldiers and continue doing so until the Americans agree to give them independence. There’s nothing crazy about it a desire for freedom. It’s the most sane position that any human being has ever had. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-just-blew-up-our-enemies/541395/28 "2010-06-02T19:18:29Z")
How have we gotten this far into the thread without anyone using the word “genocide” to describe the OP’s posited foreign policy? Because that is precisely what’s being advocated here. > [@Scotty Mo](#): > > Oh and the ‘crazy’ Muslims are the ones willing to kill us because their religion tells them too. Even Osama bin Laden, the jihad-iest of all the “crazy” Muslims, is primarily political in his aims, and religious in his justifications for his actions. Bin Laden mostly wants the end of American violent intervention in the Middle East, with a side order of the end of American economic hegemony. He does not “hate us for our freedom” or want to kill us for being non-Muslims. Rather, because he is a devout Muslim\*, he feels the need to justify his political actions with religion. Check out his stated reasoning for attacking the U.S. in his [“Letter to the Americans”.](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver) \*Bin Laden considers himself a devout Muslim. Opinions differ. Most Muslims think he is a nutcase. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-just-blew-up-our-enemies/541395/29 "2010-06-02T20:36:37Z")
Ok I understand this is not the morally right thing to do. My question is more geared toward would it work? (which most of you point out it won’t) And then in the wake of an attack like 9/11 what is the appropriate response? Would showing our power and that we are not afraid to use it in order to deter our enemies from starting shit with us work? Not necessarily nukes either just something to get the point across. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-just-blew-up-our-enemies/541395/30 "2010-06-02T20:56:42Z")
> [@Scotty Mo](#): > > Would showing our power and that we are not afraid to use it in order to deter our enemies from starting shit with us work? Of course not. No one ever stops fighting for what they believe in because they are afraid. Least of all people who have shown a willingness to die for their cause. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-just-blew-up-our-enemies/541395/31 "2010-06-02T21:04:37Z")
> [@Scotty Mo](#): > > we write the history books and say they started it. It all works out in our favor. Hint: 1984 wasn’t a how to guide. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-just-blew-up-our-enemies/541395/32 "2010-06-02T21:17:24Z")
Every time I see something like this, I want to ask the OP what he would do. If the Russians managed to pull of a Red Dawn and took out the U.S. government and begin taking all our natural resources and using former Americans as slaves, would you just accept as the status quo? Even if you felt you couldn’t directly attack the invaders, would you embrace them or secretly cheer for the resistance? Which bring us to the practicalities. From what we have seen in the last thirty years it is very easy for a vastly superior military to defeat a much weaker military. We could have beaten Saddam or the Taliban and been home for Christmas. Holding hostile territory and remaking it into a friendly nation on the other hand is hard. In Germany and Japan we poured billions of dollars to rebuild and we started from a higher point both physically (more industrialization), and cultural. Plus, we had a common enemy we were all afraid of. The only way to do what you suggest is total scorched earth, and that would leave us completely isolated from the world. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-just-blew-up-our-enemies/541395/33 "2010-06-02T21:55:07Z")
> [@Scotty Mo](#): > > Would showing our power and that we are not afraid to use it in order to deter our enemies from starting shit with us work? I already asked you a clear question which you’ve refused to answer. Here’s the question again: what do you want to do that’s different from what the United States has already done in the Middle East? Kill millions of civilians? Already done. Bomb civilian targets? Already done. Set up puppet dictatorships? Already done. Steal oil supplies against the will of the native population? Already done. So this time, please state clearly what you want to do that is different from what the United States is currently doing. Also, while you’re at it, what exactly do you mean by “starting shit with us”? The Saudi terrorists who destroyed the WTC did not start a conflict with the USA. The USA started the conflict with Saudi Arabia by occupying that country with our military since 1991. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-just-blew-up-our-enemies/541395/34 "2010-06-02T22:03:43Z")
Let me break it down to a simpler level - What if we just blew up our enemies? Great idea - go for it. Step 1. Identify enemy. Your move… ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-just-blew-up-our-enemies/541395/35 "2010-06-02T22:15:41Z")
> [@Scotty Mo](#): > > There’s a lot of varying viewpoints here but the most common would have to be that the rest of the world would turn on us. But why? Because we don’t like genocidal fucknuts. I certainly would take up arms against you if it came to that and I think most people I know would too. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-just-blew-up-our-enemies/541395/36 "2010-06-02T22:32:32Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Because we don’t like genocidal fucknuts. I certainly would take up arms against you if it came to that and I think most people I know would too. It is surprising how people are calmly discussing the OP’s proposal like it’s not completely insane. I am your typical mild-mannered Brit and very well disposed towards America and Americans, but I would probably sign up to join the Taleban if the US perpetrated anything remotely like this. The OP says things like > [@](#): > > Ok I understand this is not the morally right thing to do. My question is more geared toward would it work? seemingly blind to the problem that the fact that it would be morally wrong would make it much less likely to work, because it would turn all the US’s allies into avowed enemies. You’re supposed to be the good guys, remember? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-just-blew-up-our-enemies/541395/37 "2010-06-02T23:04:57Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Kill millions of civilians? Already done. Bomb civilian targets? Already done. Set up puppet dictatorships? Already done. Steal oil supplies against the will of the native population? Already done. So this time, please state clearly what you want to do that is different from what the United States is currently doing. We got it the first time: US bad, everyone else good. The OP asked if it was possible if you didn’t bring morality into it. Yes, it is completely possible. Keep killing until they stopped fighting. Easy peasy. If that meant you ended up killing everyone, well, you still would have won and no longer have the problems with the local population. What ITR hasn’t figured out is that it takes killing millions (actual millions, not the imaginary ones he refers to) to get a country to completely surrender such as Germany and Japan. Otherwise, you end up fighting fires continuously like in Afghanistan and Iraq. Hey, it isn’t like Islam is against such maneuvers as Moh’d (may he never have peace) himself wiped out villages and tribes as required. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-just-blew-up-our-enemies/541395/38 "2010-06-02T23:35:41Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Every time I tried to reply to this I wound up Godwinning the thread so I’ll bow out instead. > [@Linty\_Fresh](#): > > I honestly don’t think Godwin would apply to this situation. You would be quite right to bring up the Nazis. I would say that the OP sort of Godwinned himself. It’s a proposal to commit genocide. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-just-blew-up-our-enemies/541395/39 "2010-06-02T23:54:50Z")
I can think of one possible way it could work. A tailored viruse that is extremely communicable and extremely lethal. We would have to be able to innoculate Americans without Americans knowing it, which I suppose would mean it would have to work through the water supply. Anyway, you release it and it kills virtually everyone else in the world, and yeah I suppose some millions of Americans would die too. The best part is that it would be hard to prove where it came from and whether or not it was deliberate. But, real estate prices would go down, and we could all have summer homes in really cool places. Oh yeah, and we’d really have to hope that the viruse didn’t mutate as it raced around the world, ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-just-blew-up-our-enemies/541395/40 "2010-06-03T00:19:54Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > We got it the first time: US bad, everyone else good. > > The OP asked if it was possible if you didn’t bring morality into it. Yes, it is completely possible. Keep killing until they stopped fighting. Easy peasy. If that meant you ended up killing everyone, well, you still would have won and no longer have the problems with the local population. Except that the world would unify against us, and we’d be ruined or destroyed. What happens to our economy when all our trade goes away? And we aren’t the only ones with nuclear weapons, so no we can’t just conquer the whole planet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-just-blew-up-our-enemies/541395.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-just-blew-up-our-enemies/541395.md?page=3)