# What If We Were All Reptiles? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 12, 2012, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-were-all-reptiles/643818 "2012-12-12T09:45:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-were-all-reptiles/643818/21 "2012-12-13T05:58:49Z")
Of course, the AH universe under discussion is where our own world’s good Lizard People overlords come from. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-were-all-reptiles/643818/22 "2012-12-13T06:11:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **John Mace** : > > Lizard skin shoes would be very declasse. Why? I’m a mammal, and I have mammal-skin shoes. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-were-all-reptiles/643818/23 "2012-12-13T16:38:45Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Why? I’m a mammal, and I have mammal-skin shoes. And you’re very declasse. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-were-all-reptiles/643818/24 "2012-12-13T16:44:05Z")
> [@Ken001](#): > > There is an excellent SF trilogy written by Harry Harrison, “West of Eden” which fleshes out the OPs question. The books are very readable and constructed on solid science. Started reading this last night, and it’s shaping up to be very enjoyable. Thanks for mentioning it. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-were-all-reptiles/643818/25 "2012-12-13T17:03:46Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Another idea that frightens me: What about Dinosauroids on other planets? Are they are danger to us? Absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-were-all-reptiles/643818/26 "2012-12-13T17:04:36Z")
If we were all reptiles, we’d lose out on eating soft chewy mammals. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-were-all-reptiles/643818/27 "2012-12-13T17:24:28Z")
Assuming that dinosauroids did evolve and weren’t wiped out by the (asteroid/plague/time safari), what level of advancement would you expect them to have today? Millions of years of evolution and progress might make for an interesting planet - or galaxy, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-were-all-reptiles/643818/28 "2012-12-13T17:33:20Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > Assuming that dinosauroids did evolve and weren’t wiped out by the (asteroid/plague/time safari), what level of advancement would you expect them to have today? Millions of years of evolution and progress might make for an interesting planet - or galaxy, for that matter. Well, of course, the secrets of the universe are finite, and science, except in its bean-counting-and-stamp-collecting aspects, will eventually be all-finished. And technological progress might well turn out to have some physically-impassable upper limits (e.g., no FTL travel, ever); and it might be that once a civilization runs up against those limits, it will make no further significant, game-changing progress if it survives another million years. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-were-all-reptiles/643818/29 "2012-12-13T17:40:12Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Another idea that frightens me: What about Dinosauroids on other planets? Are they are danger to us? Of course they are, but, as I’ve told you countless times, dear, they can’t get into your room if you brush your teeth and say your prayers before bedtime. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-were-all-reptiles/643818/30 "2012-12-13T18:21:36Z")
I think even if dinosaurs had survived and evolved into highly intelligent life, a lot of things likely similar to human evolution would have needed to happen. For one, having large brains requires a lot of energy. I think that pretty much requires that a species be omnivorous. Yes, humans can survive as vegans, but that’s only after we’ve developed agriculture and are able to get appropriate nutrion through proper diet. I think in a pre-agricultural society, the need for calories would mean a species has to be willing to consume pretty much anything it can to get the food. Also, what sort of selective pressures would encourage a large brain? What happened to our ancestors was a lot of unusual circumstances, and as a single datapoint, it’s difficult to know what other circumstances would have resulted in what other forms? I do think something not unlike hands would be necessary, and as it were, it seems like some dinosaurs had gone bipedal already, so it seems to me that repurposing the front limbs into something handlike would still be more likely than some other sort of manipulative organ. So if they had become an intelligent species, I don’t think they’d be all that different from us. However, I think we’d probably see them more likely topping out around the level of other primates as very intelligent, but not human intelligent. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-were-all-reptiles/643818/31 "2012-12-13T19:54:45Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Dinosaurs are not lizards. Dinosaurs are reptiles to the same extent that mammals are. [BATS AREN’T BUGS!](http://mimosasonthefrontlawn.blogspot.com/2009/02/bats-arent-bugs.html) ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-were-all-reptiles/643818/32 "2012-12-13T20:18:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > But as others have noted, many Dinos were what we’d call “warm blooded” (not really a scientific term, but that’s a different issue) Honest question: wouldn’t they _all_ have been warm-blooded ([homeothermic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeothermic)) or _all_ cold-blooded ([ectothermic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectothermy))? I know “dinosaur” is not a rigorous term, scientifically, but is it possible (or even reasonable) that some could be one way and some the other way? How fundamental to, let’s say, the archosaur line, was homeothermy? Or perhaps I should narrow it down to Ornithischia and Saurischia…would they all be homeothermic or ectothermic together, or might it vary by species? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-were-all-reptiles/643818/33 "2012-12-13T20:32:20Z")
‘I realized some time ago that I’m not separate from nature just because I have a primate brain - an upper brain - because underneath the primate brain, there’s a mammalian brain, and beneath the mammalian brain, there’s a reptilian brain; and it’s those two lower brains that made the upper brain possible in the first place. Here’s the way it works: The primate brain says, “Give peace a chance.” The mammalian brain says, “Give peace a chance, but first let’s kill this motherfucker.” And the reptilian brain says, “Let’s just kill the motherfucker, go to the peace rally and get laid.”’ – George Carlin ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-were-all-reptiles/643818/34 "2012-12-13T22:09:22Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Honest question: wouldn’t they _all_ have been warm-blooded ([homeothermic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeothermic)) or _all_ cold-blooded ([ectothermic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectothermy))? I know “dinosaur” is not a rigorous term, scientifically, but is it possible (or even reasonable) that some could be one way and some the other way? How fundamental to, let’s say, the archosaur line, was homeothermy?? Depends on how strictly you use the term dinosaur. Also, we don’t actually know. We’re pretty sure most dinos were warm-blooded, or at least were not cold-blooded as lizards are - there’re more ways than just those two to manage body heat. But we don’t really know when they changed or how, although we make educated guesses based on creatures needing hot metabolisms to do things we’re pretty sure they did. Many of the sea creatures which are called dinosaurs probably did not have warm-blooded metabolisms and in fatc weren’t dinosaurs at all. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-were-all-reptiles/643818/35 "2012-12-13T23:04:23Z")
My wife would complain about being stuck with the egg-watching duties. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-were-all-reptiles/643818/36 "2012-12-13T23:22:38Z")
Abortion would not be an issue. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-were-all-reptiles/643818/37 "2012-12-14T05:18:10Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > Abortion would not be an issue. Your choice, kids or omelets. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-were-all-reptiles/643818/38 "2012-12-14T05:59:16Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > Abortion would not be an issue. Shell-cracker!! ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-were-all-reptiles/643818/39 "2012-12-14T13:18:36Z")
I’ll take a stab at this. We now are pretty certain that dinosaurs were either warm blooded or operated on gigantothermic principles depending on the species. The ones that were best suited for human like civilization though were warm blooded in the same manner as birds, so there isn’t any reason to assume a limitation to the equatorial tropics. In fact, since we know that many species had insulating feathers, they might well have _avoided_ those regions if they developed in a more temperate zone; the tropics being full of all sorts of dangerous and oversized predators. I think what you may have is a culture that looks much like contemporary herding or ranching peoples. Smaller groups that move about following herds and joining up for periodic meets and festivals. Since they are better equipped biologically than naked humans, there may well be less need for complicated technology and tools. OTOH, Birds exhibit a wide range of vocalizations and they might have extremely beautiful and complex music and language. It is likely that they would also have complex and ritualized social interactions, something again seen commonly in birds. Technology is a toss-up. It would evolve if there was a _need_ for it, otherwise it would only evolve very slowly in a civilization otherwise optimized for the region it exists in. It is possible that competition for space might eventually push social outliers into the forests or other less traditionally hospitable zones, creating a need for (relatively) advanced technologies. Given time, who knows where they might end up? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-were-all-reptiles/643818/40 "2012-12-14T14:25:59Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > Abortion would not be an issue. ☹ Egg-smashing makes the Baby Saur cry! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-were-all-reptiles/643818.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-we-were-all-reptiles/643818.md?page=3)