# What If Woody Allen Was A Total And Complete Scumbag??? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 31, 2016, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224 "2016-10-31T01:52:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/1 "2016-10-31T01:52:04Z")
Would that make you change your opinion of him? I mean he’d still be competent as director… but what if just the sight of him either made you Wretch or want to throw half bricks at him until he was either read or gone… and you really didn’t care which…? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/2 "2016-10-31T01:55:12Z")
I think you’ll soon find a good number of Board posters think just that. Not me, I love the guy and his work, as does the wife, who is his biggest Thai fan. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/3 "2016-10-31T02:34:53Z")
I was just about to say, what do you mean by “what if?” Speaking for myself, I could care less about Woody Allen’s personal life. So he (may have) slept with his 18-year-old stepdaughter, who cares. I just don’t think he’s a good enough filmmaker to care, he’s one of the most overrated movie directors out there. Maybe I’m just not Jewish enough or New York enough to “get” his style, but recently I watched _Annie Hall_ for the first time and thought, “Really? That’s it? BFD.” ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/4 "2016-10-31T03:25:05Z")
I was never a fan of Woody Allen, especially his later stuff where he really seems full of himself. Yes, the whole stepdaughter thing was gross, but she was of legal age, and he’s still with her, right? So, it wasn’t just a creepy one night stand. How come I never hear objections about Roman Polanski, and his scumminess? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/5 "2016-10-31T03:34:56Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > How come I never hear objections about Roman Polanski, and his scumminess? You’re not paying attention ;)? We’ve had multiple Roman Polanski is scum/Woody Allen is trash threads over the years. 'course I’ve been here for a disgustingly long time so maybe they multiply in my head so it just _seems_ like the SDMB talks about it a lot :). ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/6 "2016-10-31T03:35:34Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > I was never a fan of Woody Allen, especially his later stuff where he really seems full of himself. > > Yes, the whole stepdaughter thing was gross, but she was of legal age, and he’s still with her, right? So, it wasn’t just a creepy one night stand. > > How come I never hear objections about Roman Polanski, and his scumminess? Hilariously (well, not really), Mia Farrow is a big defender of Polanski, which tells you all you need to know about the moral incoherency of 21st century America. I’ve never cared to watch a Woody Allen film, and I have no particular intention of doing so now. I could _obviously_ care less about the fact that she was 18 (age differences can be a healthy and enriching thing, depending on what people are looking for in a relationship, and my personal attractions skew that direction myself). I care a lot about the fact that she was in a quasi-familial relationship with him, and I say that as a member (genetically, at least) of one the most inbred major ethnic groups on the planet. It’s utterly disgusting, and it brings with it the risk of emboldening other people all over the world who want to pursue quasi incestuous relationships. These sorts of taboos exist for a good reason, and if Woody Allen chooses to violate one, then he can keep his movies to himself. I might be a bit hypocritical here since I still appreciate Phil Spector’s music, and Don Drummond’s, in spite of them both murdering women, but at least they actually paid the price in prison. Woody allen, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/7 "2016-10-31T03:42:55Z")
There’s two tiers here. The Sun Yi secret affair thing and the daughter molestation accusations. No one can really know for certain about the [daughter abuse allegations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woody_Allen). There was a serious investigation by the police that concluded his daughter was not abused during visitation given that they were rarely if even alone together as she claimed during her visits. There’s also one of her brothers stating Mia Farrow’s white hot anger at Allen caused her to manipulate these allegations out of her daughter. The Sun Yi thing is a fact and even if it wasn’t illegal, this is the 20 year old non-bio daughter in a blended family you are deeply woven into. On that decision alone he deserves the label “creep” ethically and morally. It doesn’t make him a bad artist but it also doesn’t make him an especially good man or father. > [@](#): > > Around 1980, Allen began a twelve-year relationship with actress Mia Farrow, who starred in 13 of his films from 1982 to 1992. They never married or lived together, but lived near one another on opposite sides of Central Park in Manhattan.[150] > > In December 1991, after ten years together, Allen formally adopted two of Farrow’s own previously adopted children, Dylan, 7, and Moses, 13. Farrow told the court that Allen was an “excellent father,” although the children lived with her. The New York Times wrote that Allen and Farrow “are constantly in touch with each other, and not many fathers spend as much time with their children as Allen does.”[150] He tried to be with them every day.[151] > [@](#): > > The following month, January 1992, Farrow was at Allen’s home and came across nude photos of her adopted daughter, 21-year-old Soon-Yi Previn, which were taken by Allen. Farrow realized that Allen was having an affair with Previn.[152] This resulted in a bitter breakup of the long-term relationship between Allen and Farrow, with Previn then moving in with Allen.[153] In her autobiography, What Falls Away, Farrow says that Allen admitted to the relationship with Soon-Yi.[154] ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/8 "2016-10-31T03:53:46Z")
Doesn’t he just have a smallish cult following left these days anyway? I thought he’s pretty much a spent force who made his biggest cultural impact in the 70s and 80s and the world has since moved on. It’s as if there would be a big scandal about Meat Loaf. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/9 "2016-10-31T04:03:00Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > Doesn’t he just have a smallish cult following left these days anyway? I thought he’s pretty much a spent force who made his biggest cultural impact in the 70s and 80s and the world has since moved on. It’s as if there would be a big scandal about Meat Loaf. His following smaller than in his heyday but as a director and screenwriter he is still considered one of the greats. [http://www.moviemaker.com/archives/moviemaking/directing/articles-directing/the-25-most-influential-directors-of-all-time-3358/](http://www.moviemaker.com/archives/moviemaking/directing/articles-directing/the-25-most-influential-directors-of-all-time-3358/) ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/10 "2016-10-31T04:08:33Z")
I’m addicted to movies and treat them like heroin. I wouldn’t care if my heroin dealer was a scumbag, and I feel the same way about any good director. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/11 "2016-10-31T04:24:12Z")
I thought he was totally over-rated as a film director and actor, and I never enjoyed a single one of his films. I don’t give a shit what he does in his personal life behind closed doors. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/12 "2016-10-31T04:58:21Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > Doesn’t he just have a smallish cult following left these days anyway? I thought he’s pretty much a spent force who made his biggest cultural impact in the 70s and 80s and the world has since moved on. It’s as if there would be a big scandal about Meat Loaf. 😕 Possibly you’ve never watched or even heard of _Mighty Aphrodite_, _Sweet and Lowdown_, _Match Point_, _Blue Jasmine_ or the positively magical _Midnight in Paris_. Even a so-called “bad” Woody Allen film is far superior to the vast majority of fare that gets put out. And as for Soon-yi, they’ll have been happily married for 19 years come this December, longer than a lot of Hollywood marriages and still going strong. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/13 "2016-10-31T11:43:19Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > And as for Soon-yi, they’ll have been \*\*happily married \*\*for 19 years come this December, longer than a lot of Hollywood marriages and still going strong. Maybe my favorite thing about him now is how the press always indicates air quotes around that phrase. Yeah, he’s been faking it for 20 years. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/14 "2016-10-31T13:26:37Z")
Polanski, I’d happily see in jail. As he is not in jail, I’ll happily see any new works he puts out because his work is generally excellent. The allegations against Allen that actually qualify as criminal are severely compromised (molestation of his young daughter). There’s plenty to cast doubt. I do believe that the daughter truly believes that it happened but it had been an important “truth” in her life since she was very young so I would expect her to believe it happened whether it happened or not. Anyway, the allegations are compromised enough that I have no problem assuming innocence. The Soon-Yi thing doesn’t bother me. > [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > Doesn’t he just have a smallish cult following left these days anyway? I am a pretty devoted Woody Allen fan and I would agree that this is more or less true. > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Even a so-called “bad” Woody Allen film is far superior to the vast majority of fare that gets put out. I also agree that this is true. However, and speaking as a devoted fan- I still go to see every release on opening weekend- I think he’s mostly been putting out lesser works for the past 15 years. Since he puts out a film a year, that adds up to quite a lot of lesser works. > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > 😕 Possibly you’ve never watched or even heard of _Mighty Aphrodite_ 21 years ago, sure it’s post-70s/80s but not a strong argument for current relevance. > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > _Sweet and Lowdown_ 17 years ago. > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > _Match Point_ 11 years ago. > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > _Blue Jasmine_ or the positively magical _Midnight in Paris_. 3 years ago and 5 years ago. O.K., now you’re getting reasonably current. For the past 15 years, most of his films wouldn’t rank alongside the likes of the Greats like _Love and Death_, _Annie Hall_, _Manhattan_, _Zelig_, _Hannah and Her Sisters_, _Crimes and Misdemeanors_, _Bullets Over Broadway_, _Deconstructing Harry_, etc. **Excellent Films from the past 15 years:** [ul] [li]Melinda and Melinda, 2004[/li][li]Match Point, 2005[/li][li]Midnight in Paris, 2011[/li][li]Blue Jasmine, 2013[/li][/ul] **Good Films that remain memorable from the past 15 years** [ul] [li]Curse of the Jade Scorpion, 2001[/li][li]Anything Else, 2003[/li][li]Vicky Cristina Barcelona, 2008[/li][/ul] **Well Done Films that are nonetheless not particularly memorable from the past 15 years** [ul] [li]Scoop, 2006[/li][li]Magic in the Moonlight, 2014[/li][li]Cafe Society, 2016[/li][/ul] **Not Especially Good Films from the past 15 years** [ul] [li]You Will Meet a Tall Dark Stranger, 2010[/li][li]To Rome With Love, 2012[/li][li]Irrational Man, 2015[/li][/ul] **Films that are Pretty Lousy (by Woody Allen standards anyway) from the past 15 years** [ul] [li]Hollywood Ending, 2002[/li][li]Cassandra’s Dream, 2007[/li][li]Whatever Works, 2009[/li][/ul] Of course, the sheer _volume_ of work, especially at his advanced age, is damned well impressive. And I could happily rewatch anything except for the bottom six films listed above. But compare the past 15 years to 1969-1984 (_Take the Money and Run_ to _Broadway Danny Rose_), or 1985-2000 (_Purple Rose of Cairo_ to _Small Time Crooks_). The final third of his career has _easily_ been substandard to the first two thirds of his career. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/15 "2016-10-31T14:08:17Z")
Others have said it but he and Polanski are both basically scum but it really doesn’t distract from the quality of their work to me. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/16 "2016-10-31T15:17:34Z")
I agree with the sentiment that the scumminess of a director/actor doesn’t prevent me from enjoying his or her work. And Allen is popular enough that he was able to get a deal with Amazon to develop a TV series. And has had a bit of success recently with movies like Blue Jasmine and Midnight in Paris. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/17 "2016-10-31T15:27:10Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > Others have said it but he and Polanski are both basically scum but it really doesn’t distract from the quality of their work to me. I’ve maintained that general rule for a while now. Basically, I appreciate and admire certain celebrities for their talents and skills. However, I don’t care about or vouch for their personal lives. For one thing, we very rarely get a complete picture from public sources and, secondly, we haven’t walked in their shoes. Looking deeper into it, many successful artists are great at what they do due to some kind of internal strife or turmoil. As a philosophy professor once said to me: “When does an oyster produce a pearl? When it is irritated inside.” ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/18 "2016-10-31T15:34:23Z")
The only laugh I ever got watching his movies was when his girlfriend’s mother looked at him and saw a bearded Jew with sidelocks. Not just scum but pond scum. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/19 "2016-10-31T15:35:08Z")
Polanski bothers me more. Not only are his crimes more serious (assuming Allen’s molestation charges are bunk) but Hollywood just falls all over itself defending Polanski. That is what makes people “hate” Hollywood. Plus, I think Polanski’s movies, collectively, are not as good as Allen’s. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/20 "2016-10-31T16:18:00Z")
I liked “Sweet and Lowdown” and “Midnight in Paris” when I was watching them, but don’t consider them particularly memorable or want to see them again. I’m fairly sure that’s the only Allen from the past 20 years I’ve bothered to see. Somebody in my neighborhood was throwing out a bunch of Allen DVDs last week, and I admit to fishing out “Bananas” and “Sleeper” to take home. On the other hand, I think Polanski’s a fucking genius. I wish he’d kept his scumbag tendencies in check enough to have allowed him to make a lot more movies. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224.md?page=2)