# What If Woody Allen Was A Total And Complete Scumbag??? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 31, 2016, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224 "2016-10-31T01:52:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2016, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/41 "2016-11-01T05:11:48Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > The fact that young Ms. Previn is still with him is a testament to the [Svengali Effect](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Svengali), not to true love or the heart knowing what it wants. She’s a victim; he’s a disturbed old man. Isn’t it an ethical violation for you to be sharing this information with us? I mean, you _are_ Ms. Previn’s psychiatrist, right? You’d have to be, to speak about her motivations with such authority. I mean, if you weren’t her psychiatrist, you’d just be talking out of your ass and that’s plain silly. I very much liked _Love and Death_, but I find _Annie Hall_ actively irritating and have never been able to get through it all in one sitting. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2016, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/42 "2016-11-01T13:37:44Z")
The criticism Woody Allen made of Mia Farrow’s family is unforgivable. He described her house as more of a foundling home, and claimed she was a bad mother. None of these things held up in court. He did not know the first things about his adopted son Moses, and when the judge said he would allow Allen visitation with his biological son Satchell, he refused, stating “I’ll accept visitation with all three of the children or none of them.” In the end, he got nothing. No custody, no visitation. The judge ruled him an indifferent, absent father to his two sons, and stated his relationship with adopted daughter Dylan with inappropriate, and bordered on sexual. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/43 "2016-11-03T06:55:47Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > [/LIST] > **Films that are Pretty Lousy (by Woody Allen standards anyway) from the past 15 years** > [ul] > [li]Hollywood Ending, 2002[/li][li]Cassandra’s Dream, 2007[/li][li]Whatever Works, 2009[/li][/ul] No, those last two were pretty good. (Liked the first one too.) ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/44 "2016-11-06T14:20:03Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > No, those last two were pretty good. (Liked the first one too.) Pretty good by Woody Allen standards? How do you think _Cassandra’s Dream_ compares with _Crimes and Misdemeanors_ or _Match Point_? How do you think _Whatever Works_ compares with _Deconstructing Harry_ or _Manhattan Murder Mystery_? (These questions are not me trying to point out that you are “wrong”, I’m genuinely interested since you seem to see something in those two movies that I don’t see/) ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/45 "2016-11-06T16:29:58Z")
All great movies have been made by monsters. Would it even occur to you to see a bad movie just because you knew the director was a stand-up guy and decent family man? You have to separate the concerns. Allen is, on his best projects, a first-rate filmmaker. And he’s an evil, twisted gnome. There really is no contradiction. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/46 "2016-11-06T16:58:48Z")
Why is there a question mark in the title? Yes, Woody Allen is a scumbag in at least some aspects of his personal life. Like a lot of other people, it’s just that those other people are famous directors/actors/whatevers. Scumbags still need to make a living and a lot of people who make stuff people like happen to be scumbags in their personal lives. Basically, I’ve learned to separate the artist from the art. It would have to be something extraordinarily creepy/criminal/sick/evil for me to refuse a work based on the personal traits of the artist. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/47 "2016-11-06T19:46:33Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > Pretty good by Woody Allen standards? > > How do you think _Cassandra’s Dream_ compares with _Crimes and Misdemeanors_ or _Match Point_? > > How do you think _Whatever Works_ compares with _Deconstructing Harry_ or _Manhattan Murder Mystery_? > (These questions are not me trying to point out that you are “wrong”, I’m genuinely interested since you seem to see something in those two movies that I don’t see/) It’s very hard to equal a _Crimes and Misdemeanors_, but that did not diminish my enjoyment of the very good _Cassandra’s Dream_. And if not every film can be an _Annie Hall_, that does not make the other films bad. I cannot think of a single “bad” movie of his, although I like some better than others. For your third paragraph, I actually liked _Whatever Works_ better than the other two you mentioned. Why? I’m not sure. I liked the other two too, but _Whatever Works_ simply worked for me. ---
**Author:** ![AppallingGael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9bd4f/32.png) [@AppallingGael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AppallingGael)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/48 "2016-11-07T02:01:25Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > Maybe my favorite thing about him now is how the press always indicates air quotes around that phrase. Yeah, he’s been faking it for 20 years. I’m curious: how does one indicate air quotes in print? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/49 "2016-11-07T02:44:13Z")
I’m a huge fan of Woody Allen and I agree that some of his best films are among the best movies made by any director. I’ll quibble only with these, because they are well within my recent memory. > [@bienville](#): > > **Well Done Films that are nonetheless not particularly memorable from the past 15 years** > > [ul] > > … > > [li]Magic in the Moonlight, 2014[/li] > [li]Cafe Society, 2016[/li] > [/ul] > > **Not Especially Good Films from the past 15 years** > > [ul] > > … > > [li]Irrational Man, 2015[/li] > [/ul] These films are such horrible dreck that they made me angry as I watched them in the theater, and I groaned audibly multiple times. I felt embarrassed for the actors. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/50 "2016-11-07T08:03:07Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > These films are such horrible dreck that they made me angry as I watched them in the theater, and I groaned audibly multiple times. I felt embarrassed for the actors. Ha! Well, I gave my opinion (which was faint praise at best). Now I wanna hear what **Siam Sam** thinks! ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224/51 "2016-11-08T05:41:28Z")
Well, I don’t know what there is to say. I liked those movies even if they aren’t among his best. To call them “dreck” is simply absurd. The opening of any Woody Allen movie is a real event for both me and the wife. We love all the little touches, right down to the same font in the credits that he’s used consistently for so many years. The song selections. Jesus H. Christ, the man has put out a movie a year for more than 40 years, and I’ve not seen a loser among them. He simply has no equal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-woody-allen-was-a-total-and-complete-scumbag/770224.md?page=2)