# What if you are fired but refuse to stop working legally? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 15, 2015, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-are-fired-but-refuse-to-stop-working-legally/731302 "2015-09-15T00:41:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-are-fired-but-refuse-to-stop-working-legally/731302/1 "2015-09-15T00:41:59Z")
I actually knew someone who felt a commission based job had ridiculous terms, was fired, but kept working for almost three months and got a bunch of clients for the business but was never paid commission they were owed. Are there laws about this? I’m not in the US and it is common here to see people who haven’t been paid in six months or more and they keep going to work because apparently there is a local labor court where pay outs for this happen when a suit is filed, so the wisdom for workers who aren’t being paid is not to stop working because then you are at fault and you won’t win in the labor board. EDIT:I saw on TV a security guard for a housing development in progress said he had not been paid or talked to his employer in six months, i said what a fool stop going, but everyone told me I was the fool that he would win in the labor board and they would force the employer to keep employing him. What is the situation on this in the us? ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-are-fired-but-refuse-to-stop-working-legally/731302/2 "2015-09-15T03:18:17Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I actually knew someone who felt a commission based job had ridiculous terms, was fired, but kept working for almost three months and got a bunch of clients for the business but was never paid commission they were owed. > > Are there laws about this? I’m not in the US and it is common here to see people who haven’t been paid in six months or more and they keep going to work because apparently there is a local labor court where pay outs for this happen when a suit is filed, so the wisdom for workers who aren’t being paid is not to stop working because then you are at fault and you won’t win in the labor board. > > EDIT:I saw on TV a security guard for a housing development in progress said he had not been paid or talked to his employer in six months, i said what a fool stop going, but everyone told me I was the fool that he would win in the labor board and they would force the employer to keep employing him. > > What is the situation on this in the us? You have two conditions. If a person is fired and given his final check he is no longer an employee of the company. The company does not owe him a wage. Normally such an employee would be escorted off property. If you are fired and not given your pay check then employment has not ended. Your employer will owes you for any scheduled hours that you would work until they pay you in full. Most employers with suspend and employee while they prepair their terminal check. If an employer stops paying an employee they can keep coming to work and the employer will owe them. But if an employer is falling behind on paychecks he is probably short of money. And employees may never collect. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-are-fired-but-refuse-to-stop-working-legally/731302/3 "2015-09-15T06:19:33Z")
I wouldn’t consider the case where the employee stopped being paid as being fired. In the case where the employee is fired - or resigned - usually access to the premises would be discontinued. If the security guard were fired I’d think someone would take away his keys. If someone in sales is fired, any promises he makes about the company providing goods and services would be void. No one in the company is obligated to make good on them. I’d think promises to clients for services in return for payment would be bordering on fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-are-fired-but-refuse-to-stop-working-legally/731302/4 "2015-09-15T12:58:19Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > Normally such an employee would be escorted off property. Not “normally,” just “often.” In engineering, I’ve seen over a dozen layoffs. Only one time were the laid off escorted out, and that bit of legal advice lost the company significant productivity over the next few months because it pissed everyone off who remained. Things vary a lot, depending on the type of job and company. In any case, though, future access would almost always be restricted. Of course, that wouldn’t apply to a traveling salesman. Regardless, the guy was nuts to do all that work for free, and that’s what he did. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-are-fired-but-refuse-to-stop-working-legally/731302/5 "2015-09-15T13:41:19Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > If someone in sales is fired, any promises he makes about the company providing goods and services would be void. No one in the company is obligated to make good on them. Like most blanket statements about the law, this is inaccurate. In a number of circumstances, the employer could be bound by promises made by an ex-employee. It would generally fall within a principle called “apparent authority.” ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-are-fired-but-refuse-to-stop-working-legally/731302/6 "2015-09-15T14:16:05Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I actually knew someone who felt a commission based job had ridiculous terms, was fired, but kept working for almost three months and got a bunch of clients for the business but was never paid commission they were owed. Technically, he wasn’t owed anything. If you’re fired, you’re fired, you don’t work there anymore, they don’t have to pay you for anything you do, even if what you do benefits the company in some way. Assuming, of course, that you were legally fired, which isn’t always 100% clear depending on the jurisdiction. I can imagine someone illegally fired, continuing to do whatever work they can do while the ‘unlawful termination’ lawsuit goes through the court. Not that it’s a good idea, but I can imagine it, and wouldn’t expect the company to pay anything until after they lose the suit and followup appeals. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-are-fired-but-refuse-to-stop-working-legally/731302/7 "2015-09-15T18:13:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Like most blanket statements about the law, this is inaccurate. In a number of circumstances, the employer could be bound by promises made by an ex-employee. It would generally fall within a principle called “apparent authority.” Please say more. Does the company respond as if the person were still working there? Does the company not tell customers about the change? Ah, from the Wiki entry > [@](#): > > There must be some act or some knowing omission on the part of the principal - if the agent alone acts to give the third party this false impression, then the principal is not bound.[2] However, the principal will be bound if the agent so acts in the presence of the principal, and the principal stands silently and says nothing to dissuade the third party from believing that the agent has the authority to bind the principal. Apparent authority can also occur where a principal terminates the authority of an agent, but does not inform third parties of this termination. This is called lingering apparent authority. Business owners can avoid being liable by giving public notice of the termination of authority, and by contacting any individual third parties who would have had reason to know of such authority. None of this would seem to apply if the fired salesmen went off and contacted new clients, whom the company would be unaware of and could not contact. That was the context of the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-are-fired-but-refuse-to-stop-working-legally/731302/8 "2015-09-15T18:26:14Z")
Wasn’t there a Seinfeld episode with the same premise? George got himself fired (or he quit, I don’t recall), and then he showed up for work the next day as if nothing had happened. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-are-fired-but-refuse-to-stop-working-legally/731302/9 "2015-09-15T18:30:57Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > Wasn’t there a Seinfeld episode with the same premise? George got himself fired (or he quit, I don’t recall), and then he showed up for work the next day as if nothing had happened. _The Revenge_. George quits in a rage, then regrets it, and shows up on Monday as if nothing happened. Apparently based on Larry David having done the exact same thing when he worked for SNL. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-are-fired-but-refuse-to-stop-working-legally/731302/10 "2015-09-15T18:36:49Z")
I have seen any number of people get fired and a few were literally escorted off the premises, but no one ever carried on working. A large organisation I worked for closed a factory in London. The staff pretty much knew what was going to happen when they were all called to a meeting on Friday lunchtime. Many of them walked off with tools and goods to a considerable value. A few months later, the same company closed a completely unrelated factory in a different part of the country. Those employees turned up for work on Monday morning to find barred gates and security with dogs. They were individually escorted to collect any personal property. I can’t imagine many people here carrying on working after the wages stopped. A few days, while there was still hope maybe, but that’s it. I did know someone who put his suit on and caught the train to work every day for months after he was fired - he didn’t actually go to work - he just couldn’t bring himself to admit it to his wife. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-are-fired-but-refuse-to-stop-working-legally/731302/11 "2015-09-15T18:43:47Z")
If I recall correctly, this sort of thing has occurred in countries where the government had stopped to pay salaries to it’s employees temporarily, but the government workers showed up for work anyway because they wanted to keep their jobs in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![Carryon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Carryon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carryon)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-are-fired-but-refuse-to-stop-working-legally/731302/12 "2015-09-15T18:45:17Z")
I work for a non-profit and we help people get off of public aid, and it’s sad the number of people that keep on working for a company after that company starts bouncing payroll checks. I know that is different from what the OP asked, but it happens a lot more than you think. These folk wind up on food stamps and in a long line of creditors at the bankruptcy court. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-are-fired-but-refuse-to-stop-working-legally/731302/13 "2015-09-15T19:20:57Z")
The security guard mentioned in the OP seems to not have been fired. A guard at a remote location probably has little contact with the main office except for receiving his pay. If he received no communication firing or laying him off, he could plausibly\* argue that he kept providing labor (guarding the premises) and is owed wages for that labor until the employer discharges him. \*As in logically, not necessarily legally. I may be an attorney, but I am not the guard’s attorney nor yours 🙂 and I know little about labor law. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-are-fired-but-refuse-to-stop-working-legally/731302/14 "2015-09-15T19:29:19Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-are-fired-but-refuse-to-stop-working-legally/731302/15 "2015-09-15T19:30:22Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > Wasn’t there a Seinfeld episode with the same premise? George got himself fired (or he quit, I don’t recall), and then he showed up for work the next day as if nothing had happened. I once quit very loudly on a Friday (“Fuck this motherfucking job, I quit!!”) then showed up Monday morning. Another reason being self-employed sucks sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-are-fired-but-refuse-to-stop-working-legally/731302/16 "2015-09-15T19:30:39Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > Wasn’t there a Seinfeld episode with the same premise? George got himself fired (or he quit, I don’t recall), and then he showed up for work the next day as if nothing had happened. Or was it, or another one, with Kramer, who had no idea even what the job was? ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-are-fired-but-refuse-to-stop-working-legally/731302/17 "2015-09-15T19:42:13Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Or was it, or another one, with Kramer, who had no idea even what the job was? I have actually experienced that myself. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-are-fired-but-refuse-to-stop-working-legally/731302/18 "2015-09-15T19:59:02Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > If I recall correctly, this sort of thing has occurred in countries where the government had stopped to pay salaries to it’s employees temporarily, but the government workers showed up for work anyway because they wanted to keep their jobs in the long run. Right. The situation in the OP hasn’t really been addressed WRT the U.S. The answer is no, one doesn’t have to keep working to be able to collect unpaid back wages in the future. Even if you quit, you can still collect those wages, that is, if the employer is still solvent. IOW, in the U.S., the fact that you quit after they stopped paying you doesn’t disqualify you from collecting later on, which apparently is the case in some Caribbean countries, from what I’ve heard. ---
**Author:** ![sbunny8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@sbunny8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbunny8)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-are-fired-but-refuse-to-stop-working-legally/731302/19 "2015-09-15T22:07:07Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > If I recall correctly, this sort of thing has occurred in countries where the government had stopped to pay salaries to it’s employees temporarily, but the government workers showed up for work anyway because they wanted to keep their jobs in the long run. There has been controversy about this in the US when the government was “shut down” over budget fights. Some employees showed up for work anyway, but some people argued that those employees should be forcibly prevented from doing any work, under threat of arrest if necessary, because if we let them work “for free” during the shutdown, the employees might later as to be paid for the time they worked, which means that allowing them to show up for work implies a potential liability to pay them for it later. In private business, at least here in Oregon, state law says that if the boss tells you “Stay home this week; we can’t afford to pay you.” and you show up for work anyway, **they have to pay you** for the work you did. They can threaten you, punish you, even fire you for insubordination, but they still have to pay you for the time you worked. And if it’s over 40 hours that week, they have to pay time-and-a-half. ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-are-fired-but-refuse-to-stop-working-legally/731302/20 "2015-09-15T22:08:27Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Or was it, or another one, with Kramer, who had no idea even what the job was? I think that was George too. He wasn’t sure if he had gotten the job and was afraid to ask so he just started showing up and worked on the “Penske file”. There was an episode where Kramer was going into work at an office, even though he didn’t work there. > [@](#): > > “What did you want to see me about, Mr. Leland?” > “Kramer, I’ve been reviewing your work. Quite frankly, it stinks.” > “Well, I’ve been having trouble at home and, uh, I’ll work harder. Nights, weekends, whatever it takes.” > “No, no, I don’t think that’s going to do it. These reports you handed in, it’s almost as if you have no business training at all. I don’t know what this is supposed to be.” > “Well, I’m just trying to get ahead.” > “I’m sorry, there’s just no way that we can keep you on.” > “I don’t even really work here.” > “That’s what makes this so difficult.” > > - Kramer and Mr. Leland, in “The Bizarro Jerry” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-are-fired-but-refuse-to-stop-working-legally/731302.md?page=2)