# What if you just ignore SCOTUS? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 3, 2024, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-just-ignore-scotus/1003683 "2024-07-03T14:22:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-just-ignore-scotus/1003683/21 "2024-07-04T02:25:34Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > but what happens if **lower courts** , states, etc simply ignore a Supreme Court ruling? The Judicial Conference (headed by Chief Justice Roberts) or the circuit’s judicial council (headed by chief of court of appeals) may discipline federal judges, as provided by statute. See the United States Code, title 28, chapters 15 and esp. 16. Examples of disciplinary actions: Temporarily take the judge off cases. Public or private censure. Ask the judge to voluntarily step down. Refer to the U.S. House for impeachment. These measures are usually employed for i.e. felonies or gross misconduct. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-just-ignore-scotus/1003683/22 "2024-07-04T02:50:19Z")
To clarify, it is highly unlikely you will ever see a lower court purposely actually _ignore_ a Supreme Court decision, as in the case went to the Supreme Court and came back down and the lower court ignores the high court’s order. That sort of brazen insubordination could lead to disciplinary proceedings. Furthermore the judge is not the only court officer in a courtroom and all court officials swore to uphold the constitution, so an insubordinate judge may have trouble conducting official business. Which could lead to the complaint and disciplinary proceedings. What often happens is that lower courts will be asked to incorporate a Supreme Court decision _from another case_. If the lower court has trouble applying the rationale in the other case to the present case, or just plain dislikes the precedent, they will tend to interpret the precedent narrowly. Well, that’s part and parcel to our system of justice. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-just-ignore-scotus/1003683/23 "2024-07-04T13:52:28Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > IIRC many northern states ignored the Dred Scott decision. Yeah, some _Northern_ states invoked “states rights” which the _Southern_ states objected to and was listed as a cause for seceding in some cases. E.g. [South Carolina](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Carolina_Declaration_of_Secession#Legacy). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-just-ignore-scotus/1003683/24 "2024-07-04T13:56:54Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > I guess the follow-up question is - has there ever been an armed stand-off or armed confrontation between the forces of different levels of government since 1865? Little Rock in 1957. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-just-ignore-scotus/1003683/25 "2024-07-04T15:36:19Z")
As I mentioned above, the ultimate remedy for the authorities ignoring a court order is a civil suit. There is no pardon that immunizes the government against a civil suit. Although individual police etc. have “qualified immnity” from lawsuits if the courts believe their claim they understood they were doing what reasonably was their authority to act as part of their job. But, it’s hard to claim “I got an direct order from the court and I believed I could ignore it” would be accepted as immunizing an official. Sorry if this strays too close to “off topic” but the point should be made: under the recent SCOTUS immunity decision, any actions and discussions taken by POTUS as part of what could perhaps be considered their acts in their official capacity cannot be used as evidence in court against them no matter how egregious the act. IANAL, it is not clear to me if this includes the evidence cannot be compelled in a civil lawsuit. If so, then, for example, any details of Andrew Jackson deliberately ignoring the SCOTUS decision could not be introduced as evidence if the Cherokee had actually managed to sue for compensation. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-just-ignore-scotus/1003683/26 "2024-07-04T16:09:43Z")
Couldn’t Congress impeach a President for deliberately defying or ignoring a US Supreme Court decision? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-just-ignore-scotus/1003683/27 "2024-07-04T16:29:15Z")
Congress could impeach a President for whatever they want, so yes. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2024, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-just-ignore-scotus/1003683/28 "2024-07-04T20:11:08Z")
Where would the lines be drawn for the OP? The vast majority of cases are heard by lower appellate courts than the Supreme Court. Should judges and governments ignore them as well if they don’t like the decision? For that matter why shouldn’t you just ignore the judge’s ruling in your case? For better or worse, society functions on the rule of law, however it is defined. The judicial system often makes horrible decisions, and sometimes principled civil disobedience is justified. However, those by definition involve consequences. In the long run, judicial decisions can’t simply be ignored. That breaks the system. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2024, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-just-ignore-scotus/1003683/29 "2024-07-05T12:54:58Z")
> [@dorvann](#): > > Couldn’t Congress impeach a President for deliberately defying or ignoring a US Supreme Court decision? But the only punishment for impeachment is removal from office, and optionally to bar re-election. So if the act is of immediate consequence and hard to reverse, then essentially the consequences for a soon-to-be-ex-president are minimal. A lame duck president seems to have carte blanche. If a governor ignores a SCOTUS order and orders the execution of a convict proceed, he can be charged. The president, not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-if-you-just-ignore-scotus/1003683.md?page=1)