# What industries are there no small/obscure players? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 22, 2013, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industries-are-there-no-small-obscure-players/676944 "2013-12-22T09:03:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industries-are-there-no-small-obscure-players/676944/41 "2013-12-23T06:19:26Z")
> [@oz0ne](#): > > North American diesel-electric freight and passenger locomotives: General Electric and EMD (General Motors). FYI GM has not owned EMD for quite some time. It was spun off to a group of investors. ---
**Author:** ![Cerealbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Cerealbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerealbox)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industries-are-there-no-small-obscure-players/676944/42 "2013-12-23T06:21:55Z")
I heard once that there was only one manufacturer or double-wide trailers in the united states, but I 'd say there’s a 20% chance I’ve gotten the product wrong. ---
**Author:** ![oz0ne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9fc348/32.png) [@oz0ne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oz0ne)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industries-are-there-no-small-obscure-players/676944/43 "2013-12-23T06:24:54Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > FYI GM has not owned EMD for quite some time. It was spun off to a group of investors. Yes sir, you are correct. I had forgotten that they were now Progress Rail. Thanks for the reminder. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industries-are-there-no-small-obscure-players/676944/44 "2013-12-23T07:10:50Z")
Most very large ships are made by South Korean firms, especially Hyundai. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industries-are-there-no-small-obscure-players/676944/45 "2013-12-23T07:45:39Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > The [Ilyushin Il-96](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-96) is a wide body airplane that can seat up to 436 passengers, similar to a Boeing 767/777. So if I see a wide-body jet airliner that’s not made by Boeing or Airbus, it’s just an optical Ilyushin? ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industries-are-there-no-small-obscure-players/676944/46 "2013-12-23T08:15:41Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > So if I see a wide-body jet airliner that’s not made by Boeing or Airbus, it’s just an optical Ilyushin? Attention…Your attention please… The official winner of the internet for Monday, December 23rd, 2013 is **Derleth**. **Derleth** , please proceed to the Ministry of Love to receive your reward. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industries-are-there-no-small-obscure-players/676944/47 "2013-12-23T08:32:18Z")
> [@oz0ne](#): > > Who’d you have on your mind regarding this, Martini? > > ETA: That sounded really confrontational. Not my intention. For longarms, you’ve got firms like Remington, Winchester, Marlin, FN/Browning, Ruger, Weatherby, Springfield Armoury, Beretta, CZ, Zastava, Uberti, Chiappa, Boito, Baikal, Miroku and so on. There’s probably no more than 30 worldwide. Admittedly there are a handful of bespoke gunmakers like Holland & Holland and W W Greener and about, but they’re either not obscure or they’re not small in the sense a Holland & Holland rifle is worth more than a house. Also, by “Civilian arms manufacturers”, I’m referring to firms who make guns wholly or mostly for sale on the civilian market, not companies who sell most of their guns to the military and also sell a few on the civilian market as well - an important distinction. It does get a bit more complicated with a lot of well-known names (including Winchester and Webley & Scott) existing only as brands, with the guns made by someone else (As I understand it, Winchester lever-actions are made by Fabrique National in Belgium and Webley & Scott’s shotguns are, I believe, made in Turkey) too. Anyhoo, the point I was making is that to anyone with more than a passing interest in firearms, almost none of the civilian arms manufacturers are obscure nobodies - they’re all generally pretty well-known. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industries-are-there-no-small-obscure-players/676944/48 "2013-12-23T09:12:47Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > or a government contractor for, say, printing legal tender; There are several privately owned companies on the market competing for this kind of service. American Bank Note, Giesecke & Devrient, De La Rue, Enschede are just a few examples. On top of that, some governments or central banks operate their own printing facilities for their own national currencies but will also take commissions from other issuers. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industries-are-there-no-small-obscure-players/676944/49 "2013-12-23T09:17:46Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > Virtually all of these examples are for a product that requires either advanced technology or massive infrastructure to compete in the marketplace. The fewer the companies there are, the fewer duplicate functions “the world” has to pay for. That’s right, but you have to balance these welfare gains against the efficiency and quality losses towards which monopolists tend, as experience has taught us. Even for products with very strong economies of scale, monopolies are not necessarily the best outcome for “the world”. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industries-are-there-no-small-obscure-players/676944/50 "2013-12-23T09:29:30Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > There are of course many very-small food product makers, but if you were to leave only the products made by the big three food congloms on the shelves… your local grocery store wouldn’t change much. If you reduced it to Kraft and FritoLay alone, you’d probably no more than wonder why the shelf stockers were being so lax. Not true outside the USA, but for one tiny example it is difficult to even find anything with corn syrup as a sweetener outside the USA. Sugar is the cheaper and preferred sweetener. That isn’t to say there aren’t similar giant prepared food companies. ---
**Author:** ![Marion\_Wormer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d07c76/32.png) [@Marion\_Wormer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marion_Wormer)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industries-are-there-no-small-obscure-players/676944/51 "2013-12-23T10:35:58Z")
Ice Resurfacers There’s two companies, Zamboni and Resurfice (which makes the Olympia brand). Everyone calls them Zamboni’s but that’s a brand name. Maybe there’s a European or Russian company, but there can’t be more than one. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industries-are-there-no-small-obscure-players/676944/52 "2013-12-23T12:07:16Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > The [Ilyushin Il-96](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-96) is a wide body airplane that can seat up to 436 passengers, similar to a Boeing 767/777. They ceased production of that airplane in 2006. Boeing uses pictures of some of their aircraft as examples of poor quality. Some of the pictures are down right scary. [QUOTE=thelurkinghorror] What does large mean, like 747 size? Mentioned in the OP, but I would’ve mentioned Bombardier Aerospace for commercial-sized, unless we are only counting US companies? They have half as many employees as Airbus, so not tiny (that may not be the best metric). Alaska Airlines likes their planes I believe. Also Embraer, although I haven’t really heard of them until just now. [/QUOTE] Yes, large. That would be 200 or more seats. There are other companies besides Boeing and Airbus that build what are called regional aircraft. Even those companies are at the lower end of the passenger count. A Boeing 737-900 can carry up to 189 passengers, one version of the Airbus A-320 can carry 177. I’m not at work right now, there is a chart on the wall that shows the size of all commercial aircraft currently in production that carries 50 or more passengers. As an employee of Boeing, I am kept pretty up to date in the world of aviation in my daily email every Boeing employee receives. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industries-are-there-no-small-obscure-players/676944/53 "2013-12-23T12:32:43Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > At least one industry does not which is magnetic hard drives. I grant that it’s unusual which is why I’m asking this question. > > The [Ilyushin Il-96](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-96) is a wide body airplane that can seat up to 436 passengers, similar to a Boeing 767/777. Well, it’s not as dry cut as such…… [there is this company](http://www.cheungwoh.com.sg/index.html), that produces parts for Hard Disk Drives… so even there are only three big guys left, they are sourcing from other smaller companies parts to build and assemble these drives - Motors, controller chips, etc… ---
**Author:** ![MaltLiquor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/858c86/32.png) [@MaltLiquor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaltLiquor)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industries-are-there-no-small-obscure-players/676944/54 "2013-12-23T12:33:26Z")
Steel. Not surprising but in America it could be done. There are plants shut down that you can modify for a couple hundred thousand or maybe more to make specialty steel.,oh, oh or do custom made steel. High end products need high end materials to be more than a fad. Plywood. Another basic material that if it is anything that needs wood you will need. Solid wood will last longer and with wear you will never go into another ply but plywood is stronger more flexible and is beter looking as you have much more choices on the grain. May not last as long overall but still a good 50 years or so before the glue starts to give out. More sustainable also that that is good…as long as everyone follows CARB. Thanks California! Can’t thing of anything else and I bet it is really only large volume stuff. Platics? No it is cheap to ship those little bead things…Solar Panels. A few companies in Europe and America, a bunch in china but not actually a whole lot. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industries-are-there-no-small-obscure-players/676944/55 "2013-12-23T13:55:49Z")
> [@racer72](#): > > They ceased production of that airplane in 2006. Boeing uses pictures of some of their aircraft as examples of poor quality. Some of the pictures are down right scary. According to the Wiki article, [it’s still being produced](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-96#Production_by_year). Is that not the case? ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industries-are-there-no-small-obscure-players/676944/56 "2013-12-23T14:22:46Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Most very large ships are made by South Korean firms, especially Hyundai. That may be true, but there are lots of sectors where _most_ products come from a small number of big players. My interpretation of the OP is that what we’re looking for is a sector where literally _every single_ product sold comes from a small number of providers. And shipbuilding, even for the very large vessels, is not an example for such a sector; there are other dockyards in several countries which are active in this market, both military and civilian. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industries-are-there-no-small-obscure-players/676944/57 "2013-12-23T16:30:00Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > I was quite surprised to discover there are now only 3 hard drive manufacturers (Western Digital, Seagate & Toshiba) who make every single magnetic hard drive in the world (down from 10 in 2000)… I didn’t realize there were so few. I remember Conner, Quantum, and Maxtor from the late 1990’s, and remember when Conner got bought out by Seagate. I didn’t realize that Maxtor and Quantum got bought out too. Looks like Maxtor bought Quantum and then Seagate bought Maxtor. I also recall that IBM and Fujitsu made hard disks, but I’m not sure if IBM actually made their disks in-house or if they were OEM’d. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industries-are-there-no-small-obscure-players/676944/58 "2013-12-23T16:34:31Z")
Tires might meet that criteria, I can’t think of any real small tire manufacturers. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industries-are-there-no-small-obscure-players/676944/59 "2013-12-23T19:29:01Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > According to the Wiki article, [it’s still being produced](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-96#Production_by_year). Is that not the case? Those are for the Russian Air Force, they are not for commercial use. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industries-are-there-no-small-obscure-players/676944/60 "2013-12-23T21:42:32Z")
> [@oz0ne](#): > > :golf clap: I love it. Here is the [site](http://vtlyon.com/Lyon%20Home.html) for the Lyon project. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industries-are-there-no-small-obscure-players/676944.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industries-are-there-no-small-obscure-players/676944.md?page=4)