# What industry is most built on bluff and bull feathers? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 1, 2020, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industry-is-most-built-on-bluff-and-bull-feathers/916994 "2020-08-01T16:20:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2020, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industry-is-most-built-on-bluff-and-bull-feathers/916994/61 "2020-08-04T21:54:58Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > A lot of stuff is bullfeathers in the food industry - organic pops to mind [if it is not metal or a salt, and is carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen with other elements for flavor and color is organic, which pretty much defines anything from the ‘finest’ Trader Joe snack to twinkies. Although I generally think organic is silly, it does have a pretty clear definition. Organic agriculture is the sort of farming done without “chemical” pesticides, antibiotics or fertilizers. In theory and in marketing, it’s all happy plants being fertilized with manure from cows fed those same happy manure-fed plants. In practice, there’s a whole list of “organic” pesticides that aren’t really better for the plants or consumers at all, and in some cases are more indiscriminate and poisonous than the chemical stuff. Organic food products are just things made from the products of organic agriculture. So organic yogurt would be made from milk from organically raised cows and organically raised fruit. Same for cookies- organically grown wheat, sugar, chocolate, eggs, etc… > **[Organic farming](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_farming)** > > Organic farming, also known as ecological farming or biological farming, is an agricultural system that uses fertilizers of organic origin such as compost manure, green manure, and bone meal and places emphasis on techniques such as crop rotation and companion planting. It originated early in the 20th century in reaction to rapidly changing farming practices. Certified organic agriculture accounts for 70 million hectares (170 million acres) globally, with over half of that total in Organic agri... In general, it’s chock full of woo and nonsense, and is the kind of thing that well-to-do housewives buy because they’re afraid of “the chemicals” and other similar nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industry-is-most-built-on-bluff-and-bull-feathers/916994/62 "2020-08-05T00:02:04Z")
Not everything about organic farming is bad, but people wind up paying a lot more for organic produce and meat, when health benefits are lacking and organic’s ecological impact can be worse than conventional farming. “…there are over 20 chemicals commonly used in the growing and processing of organic crops that are approved by the US Organic Standards. And, shockingly, the actual volume usage of pesticides on organic farms is not recorded by the government. Why the government isn’t keeping watch on organic pesticide and fungicide use is a damn good question, especially considering that many organic pesticides that are also used by conventional farmers are used more intensively than synthetic ones due to their lower levels of effectiveness. According to the [National Center for Food and Agricultural Policy](http://www.ncfap.org/), the top two organic fungicides, copper and sulfur, were used at a rate of 4 and 34 pounds per acre in 1971 [1](https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/httpblogsscientificamericancomscience-sushi20110718mythbusting-101-organic-farming-conventional-agriculture/#1). In contrast, the synthetic fungicides only required a rate of 1.6 lbs per acre, less than half the amount of the organic alternatives.” > **[Mythbusting 101: Organic Farming \> Conventional Agriculture](https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/httpblogsscientificamericancomscience-sushi20110718mythbusting-101-organic-farming-conventional-agriculture/)** ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industry-is-most-built-on-bluff-and-bull-feathers/916994/63 "2020-08-05T01:17:01Z")
High-end wines. Double-blind taste tests show again and again that people can’t tell the difference between expensive and mid-priced wines (and sometimes cheap ones). > [@dtilque](#): > > But if you just want farmers to decrease the amount of insecticides and herbicides they spread around the countryside, then that’s a good reason, despite the aforementioned bogusly-labeled stuff. The amount of pesticides have little to do with organic. In fact some non-organic pesticides are better because you don’t need as much. I don’t thing organics is a scam but I don’t think it helps the environment. I wish it did; I consider myself an ardent environmentalist and would love an easy decision like buying organics. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industry-is-most-built-on-bluff-and-bull-feathers/916994/64 "2020-08-05T02:32:56Z")
Interesting coincidence. “Chock full of woo” was my nickname in college. Maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industry-is-most-built-on-bluff-and-bull-feathers/916994/65 "2020-08-05T03:03:36Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Chock full of woo” was my nickname in college Please tell us more…😉 ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industry-is-most-built-on-bluff-and-bull-feathers/916994/66 "2020-08-05T06:20:14Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Yea, ISO9001 is bullshit. “Auditors” are paid lots of money to verify you are documenting everything. It has nothing to do with ensuring quality of product or quality of services. You can produce complete garbage and have crappy service and pass an ISO audit with flying colors, as long as all your documentation is in order. It’s worthless. Oh yeah. I worked at a company that was trying to get its ISO9001 certification. Why? Nobody ever said, but it seemed to be very important that we get it. Anyway, from what I could tell, it boiled down to three steps: 1. State what you are going to do and how you are going to do it. 2. Document what you determined in step 1. 3. Follow the instructions in step 2. And every year or so, the company paid a lot of money for a bunch of “auditors” to come from overseas to make sure that we were doing all three steps. Not whether our products were any good, or worked as promised; just whether we were following the instructions that we ourselves wrote for the products we ourselves made. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Max](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9de053/32.png) [@Blue\_Max](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Max)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industry-is-most-built-on-bluff-and-bull-feathers/916994/67 "2020-08-05T07:32:26Z")
Most premium pricing targets emotions, rather than performance. You will very rarely get something ten times as good if you pay ten times as much for an item. There are some major exceptions (Foodstuffs can very easily vary over an order of magnitude) but in general the trade off between quality and performance becomes marginal well before that point. Insurance, by definition, is more costly than simply having money set aside to accurately gauge risk. Extended Warranties and Service Contracts are particularly wasteful. Debt Consolidation often consists of nothing more than people preying on unknowing victims and charging fees for things that could be done with intermediate knowledge of financing options. Casinos are literally bluff and bull feathers; the whole thing is a fantasy front from simply losing money on the installment plan. Now, the low end of Casinos could potentially be a ‘pay to have a good time’, but beyond that, the key concept is illusory winning. And point of fact–people who are actually beating casinos will get thrown out. But I think the true winner is conspiracy theories for profit, a clique that includes the US President. The great appeal of these theories isn’t the useless and bogus facts, it’s finding large numbers of stupid people who can still afford to pay for electricity, or at least take it out on their credit cards. Homeopathetic medicine, Anti-Vax ‘remedies’ are targets for baseless shilling, a connection that makes crystal clear that ignorance is a virtue because it directly leads to those stupid people buying useless stuff. Edit: There are a lot of things that people and businesses have to do for social reasons. If your competitors advertise, you need to advertise to maintain the same level of awareness or advertising more can increase your position. This does indeed lead to large numbers of parties throwing money away. If everyone agreed not to care, a lot of effort would be saved. Instead, having an accreditation can give advantages over competitors. If society decided it was very important to use silver cutlery to carve meats, there would be demand caused by that social pressure, even though this is expensive and completely unnecessary. I’m not sure social pressure on its own makes things bull feathers so much as it’s a keeping up with the Jones’ fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industry-is-most-built-on-bluff-and-bull-feathers/916994/68 "2020-08-05T11:55:37Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > You spot a post somewhere, by someone who seems to have an interesting way of looking at things. It brings a wry smile to your lips or makes you think a little more deeply about something. So you start reading their blog. I assume you’re talking about “life coaches”? I was going to offer “Any product offering whose existence doesn’t make sense” and life coaches certainly fit the description. IMO, anyone qualified to be a life coach would be successful enough they don’t need to work anymore. They’re not toiling over a website and customers, they’re lying on their sailboat with a margarita. By the same token, anyone who actually knows how to “get rich quick in the stock market” sure as hell isn’t putting the secret in a mass market book. If such a thing exists, they’re keeping it quiet and reinvesting their returns for their own profit. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industry-is-most-built-on-bluff-and-bull-feathers/916994/69 "2020-08-05T12:24:44Z")
Handbags, perfume and cosmetic lines. No skill, of questionable fame types, like Monica Lewinsky, Kardashians, Ivanka Trump and unending starlets, all…suddenly, and with ZERO qualifications are instantly deemed ‘Designers’ or were integral ‘contributors’ to that perfume/makeup line. Yeah, right. But the media give them air time, put mics in front of them, lend them credibility, and are complicit in selling billions and billions of such products for these hacks, without shame. And consumers never seem to get any smarter sadly. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industry-is-most-built-on-bluff-and-bull-feathers/916994/70 "2020-08-05T13:53:59Z")
Influencing ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industry-is-most-built-on-bluff-and-bull-feathers/916994/71 "2020-08-05T15:41:39Z")
Yeah, in my first job out of college, we were getting ISO9001 certified, and I recall asking what that meant, and got a whole lot of propaganda about quality, etc… Then after about six months, I asked HOW we actually did that- where were the process improvement experts, where were the time and motion study types, etc…? And I got told that it was essentially **Spoons** ’ 3 steps. To which my 24 year old response was “Ok… what prevents us from documenting a low quality process in steps 1 and 2?” Crickets… ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industry-is-most-built-on-bluff-and-bull-feathers/916994/72 "2020-08-05T15:48:19Z")
> [@Blue\_Max](#): > > Most premium pricing targets emotions, rather than performance. You will very rarely get something ten times as good if you pay ten times as much for an item. The 80/20 rule (or something similar) absolutely applies with consumer products. You only get what you pay for up to a point, and then above that, the incremental improvements don’t scale with the amount of money spent. I think casinos are generally not viewed as ways to make money, except by the very ignorant and/or stupid, or maybe professional gamblers. Most people tend toward the idea of going to a casino for the food, the shows, and to gamble a limited amount of money. The idea that they _might_ win is exciting, but not the actual reason they go. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industry-is-most-built-on-bluff-and-bull-feathers/916994/73 "2020-08-05T16:12:38Z")
Perhaps. I would bet a significant percentage of people spend more than they planned. The casinos are run by intelligent and experienced people who are good at offering cheap and desirable incentives to those who pay back more. (I personally do not much enjoy gambling.) ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industry-is-most-built-on-bluff-and-bull-feathers/916994/74 "2020-08-05T17:05:17Z")
I would include most of the Interior Designer “industry”. I can select and place my furniture without help. Ditto any decorations on the walls. There might be some part of the field that deals with customer flow and display arrangements for retail stores, but that seems more like industrial design. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industry-is-most-built-on-bluff-and-bull-feathers/916994/75 "2020-08-05T17:09:59Z")
> [@Rocketeer](#): > > ISO9001 certification. A bigger pile of trendy-ass buzzword bullsh\*t I’ve never seen. One of **Mrs R** ’s college friends made a pretty good career out of jumping on every feel-good corporate buzzword fad that came along. An entire life being obscenely well-paid while adding absolutely no value whatsoever. Honestly, I’ve always been suspicious of consulting in general. At some companies where I’ve worked, I’ve seen some problems and suggested fixes but was ignored. But then they hire a highly-paid consultant, who advises the same thing, and all of a sudden, the changes are made. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industry-is-most-built-on-bluff-and-bull-feathers/916994/76 "2020-08-05T17:41:40Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > Organic produce : big scam there too. I used to order materials for a plant that made organic fertilizers. If people were aware of just how many ingredients that are OMRI certified (Organic Materials Review Institute) that almost anyone would point to and say, “that is a chemical”, they would quit buying organic produce. This sulfate of potash is not organic. This other one from the same company is organic. The difference? The company spent the time and money to have the second product OMRI certified. That’s about it. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industry-is-most-built-on-bluff-and-bull-feathers/916994/77 "2020-08-05T18:27:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > They dont landfill plastic, mostly, but it is costly. Ummm, you sure about that? [quote] For decades, we were sending the bulk of our recycling to China—tons and tons of it, sent over on ships to be made into goods such as shoes and bags and new plastic products. [But last year, the country restricted](https://www.wto.org/english/news_e/news17_e/impl_03oct17_e.htm)imports of certain recyclables, including mixed paper—magazines, office paper, junk mail—and most plastics. Waste-management companies across the country are telling towns, cities, and counties that there is no longer a market for their recycling. These municipalities have two choices: pay much higher rates to get rid of recycling, or throw it all away. Most are choosing the latter.[/quote] > **[Is This the End of Recycling?](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/03/china-has-stopped-accepting-our-trash/584131/)** > > Americans are consuming more and more stuff. Now that other countries won’t take our papers and plastics, they’re ending up in the trash.   Most of the plastic you put into your recycle bin, ends up in the landfill. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industry-is-most-built-on-bluff-and-bull-feathers/916994/78 "2020-08-05T18:33:31Z")
> [@pullin](#): > > I would include most of the Interior Designer “industry”. I can select and place my furniture without help. Ditto any decorations on the walls. Sure, and to some people’s eyes, I bet it looks like crud. That’s why some people hire interior decorators/designers- they want someone who supposedly knows what they’re doing to choose all their decorations, furniture, etc… and arrange it just-so, in order to have a space that’s in-style. The trick there is “in-style”- if you don’t care about that, then interior decorators seem up there with telephone sanitizers as epitomes of frivolous jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industry-is-most-built-on-bluff-and-bull-feathers/916994/79 "2020-08-05T23:39:33Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Yeah, in my first job out of college, we were getting ISO9001 certified, and I recall asking what that meant, and got a whole lot of propaganda about quality, etc… > > Then after about six months, I asked HOW we actually did that- where were the process improvement experts, where were the time and motion study types, etc…? And I got told that it was essentially **Spoons** ’ 3 steps. To which my 24 year old response was “Ok… what prevents us from documenting a low quality process in steps 1 and 2?” > > Crickets… “Quality” was such a trendy buzzword in the 1990s that it eventually because an industry. I was (still am) in the engineering/R&D world, and everyone at the time was talking about Deming, Juran, the Malcolm Baldrige Award, ISO 9000, SIx Sigma, etc. Every company had their “quality guru” who would roam the halls and babble bullshit buzzwords all day. “Quality” books were required reading, and many engineers were given the title “quality engineer” regardless of what they did. There was a cult following for it, especially among clueless management types, so you didn’t _dare_ criticize it. It wasn’t just ridiculous… it was, for the most part, a huge waste of time and money. I say “for the most part” because there was a _little_ bit of good that came out of it, and some of those things are still practiced today. But thank goodness the nonsense has mostly subsided… ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2020, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industry-is-most-built-on-bluff-and-bull-feathers/916994/80 "2020-08-08T03:38:44Z")
Some people thought the same about six sigma, but only when applied out of context. [https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-sigma-good-or-bad/491598](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/six-sigma-good-or-bad/491598) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industry-is-most-built-on-bluff-and-bull-feathers/916994.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-industry-is-most-built-on-bluff-and-bull-feathers/916994.md?page=5)