That’s exclusively credit cards. Our sales are roughly one third credit, one third debit, and one sixth each cash and checks.
I think the point is that merchants need fraud protection just as much as consumers do. Many people use See ID and like me they have their ID at the ready so it doesn’t slow anybody down. It’s called consideration. You can disagree all you like but that doesn’t change reality.
What we’ve established is that proper merchant agreement procedure consists of several steps other than signature comparison and doesn’t really take any more time than checking ID if store employees are doing it properly. My guess is you and many others have been spoiled by cashiers who don’t actually follow the merchant agreement.
When you refuse to produce an ID for the cashier does that slow your transaction or the transaction of those behind you?
Sarcasm aside, I am fine with you insisting that merchants adhere to the agreement and refusing to produce ID. Of course if any of the several steps on the merchant agreement don’t jive then I’ll have to call the CC company and they may ask me to check ID.
Honest, many signatures don’t match very well. Some people have have distinct handwriting but more than a few just scribble and you really can’t tell if they match. What should I do then? Will that slow transactions?
WOW!! You’re lucky. We’ve had way to many bad checks. MAnagement tells us state laws in TN just made it harder to collect so we discourage most checks. We won’t take any that aren’t local.
Interesting.
Do you have any info on bad charges for groceries. How many do you get? Probably more than I’d expect. The problem for many merchants is that one bad charge can be on a very exspensive item.
Well, the thought process behind the credit card companies directive not to have the consumer produce an ID is to expedite the purchase. The funnel of time is plugged when merchants or consumers insist on bucking the pre-planned system that’s been set.
The thought process is to balance ease of use with security for consumer and merchant. It’s plain to see their are several security steps that go along with comparing signitures. Most of those require calling the CC company if we even think there’s a problem. If I don’t do that then I risk not only bad debt for the company but considerable hassle for the customer if charges go on their account without their permission. No reasonable person can say thats significantly faster than showing ID. If you want to refuse to show ID then be my guest but it’s not because anyone is slowing you down. That’s simply not true.
Very, very few. As in easily less than 1 in 10,000. But retail grocery isn’t nearly as prone to fraud as, say, self-serve gasoline, or online merchants, or electronics retailers.
Uh, you know that the population of the United States is predominately urban, right? Therefore “most locations” is inclusive of the word “urban.” Yeah, out in the sticks there may be a difference, but I still feel perfectly comfortable with my qualification of “most locations.” All the more, don’t be so defensive. I’m not talking about you specifically.
You’re pretty much insulting. But, yeah, I’m clueless – I don’t know if you have a net connection or not, because I don’t know you. I hate to make this just about you but you’re whining on and on about it. I never suggested that you specifically replace anything; but when you have the choice of initial investment it’s an even wash. As is, you seem to be the type of shopkeeper who won’t reinvest in a new toilet because the broken one only affects 1% of your customers. Sheesh.
Again, this isn’t just about InvisibleWombat’s store! I’ve taken careful pains to qualify my statements. In any case, if I had to write a check I think it sounds like I’d have a really good experience in your store. As a customer, I really do appreciate the experience more than anything else – what did you say you sell? Widgets, then. I can get widgets anywhere; it sounds like you’d be a candidate for repeat business (well, unless your public toilet’s broken when I really need it).
Okay, this is just about you – what type of old fashioned archaic equipment are you using where a receipt takes so long to print? Is it one of those old 30cps line printers you can get at the flea market for $10?
I’ll give you this – I find that in the sticks a higher percentage of people are curteous and organized compared to the jerks that live in suburbia. Even so, in any modern facility, the credit card will always be much, much faster. Except… there was a time where on store (Wal-Mart?) would just run your blank check through a printer – that was equally fast. The only problem was that the same people that are afraid to use credit/debit cards are afraid to let the machine do the printing.
LOL – you’re right. Glad we could see eye to eye on something. 
If it’s “simply not true” then you ought to have proof and that the few false purchases would outweigh the time of erroneously demanding ID to be shown.
You have been misinformed.
Requesting ID is against card acceptance agreements because it can be used as a form of passive suppression. Many merchants, especially small ones with little market power, often try to drive their customers towards paying with cash. Plastic acceptance can lure in patrons, but at the point of purchase, merchants try to dissuade them from actually using their credit cards. Merchants are pretty savvy and have all sorts of ways of doing this. Credit card companies and third party acquirers have to anticipate these kinds of behaviors and build them into the acceptance agreement.
Are there exceptions for certain types of transactions or dollar amounts?
I’ve noticed that when I use my credit card at a drive-through (BK is the main offender), they often ask for ID and just give me a receipt without asking me to sign it. I’ve never complained about it, but I don’t like the extra hassle, especially after all those Visa Check Card commercials pointing out how you don’t need to show ID, and I think it’s about time I started complaining.
Well, if I was going to be a cynic I would say that what the card companies advertise to you is not necessarily aligned to reality.
Specifically, they say to you “Don’t worry, it’s a breeze, no ID necessary and it only takes 0.0012 seconds and it doesn’t cost a penny”
To the retailer they say “follow these 132 steps to the letter or you get to absorb the cost of any fraud, and we add $0.50 and 2% to the cost of every transaction you process - better add that to the price tag or take it out of your margin”
Similarly, on credit cards they make it sound like it’s virtually an interest-free loan - in reality those teaser rates evaporate pretty quickly.
Incidentally, I have no idea what a Visa Check card is - if it’s a PIN debit card then there is no need for ID because they verify every single transaction themselves.
The problem with the steps is the phone call when there is something suspicious. From how I’ve seen certain customers react when I ask them for ID, I can not even image how many would get upset if I mistrusted them enough to make a phone call.
The ones that get particularly upset are the customers that come to my store almost every day. In their eyes I am being very disrespectful because I do not trust them. I had a few customers tell me “don’t worry, I won’t rob you of $20” while giving me their ID.
What you see as an honorable contract, I see as coercion. It is just gross abuse by powerful big business against weak smaller businesses. I think that there should be some kind of a law against this coercion. In absence of that law civil disobedience will have to do. I agree to take the loss of chargeback for not following security procedure. In a way I am still honoring the agreement. The agreement says that if I don’t follow procedure that I can not contest a chargeback, and that is what happens.
Often not. ID doesn’t really make much of a difference for exotic transactions, especially when the fraudulent cardholder is in collusion with a fraudulent merchant.
Extremely large dollar amounts and transactions in high risk industries will flag the fraud models embedded in the authorization/submission process. A representative of the credit card company might actually call the point of sale, or perhaps the transaction will be processed with certain restrictions. Keep in mind that there are many ways to launder money using a credit card, so card issuers and acquirers are very keen to keep an eye on how their products are being used. We also have to comply with the Patriot Act, which requires even more stringent kinds of monitoring and internal processes.
It’s a debit card, but it has a Visa logo and can be used like any other Visa card, just by signing the receipt (or entering the card number + expiration date + CVV for online purchases).
You can also use it like a regular ATM/debit card, by entering your PIN at the point of sale, but you don’t have to do that unless you want cash back. Cashiers often ask “debit or credit?” when you hand them any Visa card; if you say “credit”, they run it as a credit card transaction and you have to sign, but the money is still debited from your checking account. A while back, Visa ran a sweepstakes where you were automatically entered whenever you used the card for a “credit” transaction.
I forgot to answer the second part of your question, Mr2001.
Burger King is a quick service restaurant, so the transaction size is extremely low but the number of net transactions is very high.
The reason why no signature is required is almost certainly because BK is on a “no-reply chargeback” special program. Chargebacks are costly to process and reply to on the part of the merchant. They are also something of a hassle for all parties involved. BK probably waived the right to reply to chargebacks in exchange for not having to collect a signature at the point of sale. BK doesn’t mind having to eat the cost of an occasional asshole calling to dispute a $5 charge in exchange for the vastly improved transactions/minute it gets from not getting a signature.
Interesting… that’s what I was trying to get at with the question about transaction types. This special program wouldn’t entitle them to require ID, would it?
Perhaps. A lot of high risk industries would be on no-reply chargebacks or similar programs, where there is no opportunity to collect signatures since the card is keyed, not swiped. There is no clear and necessary relationship between no-reply CBs and presentation of ID. However, something around this might have been negotiated in the custom contract.
Alternatively, each franchise owner has to eat his own chargebacks, so the ID presentation might just be a homegrown effort to reduce fraud.
Not one bit. The only time in recent memory when I was asked for ID after presenting a signed credit card was at BestBuy. The cashier told me it was “their policy”. I pointed out that it was against their agreement with my card company. So I walked out, leaving behind around $1800 in merchandise. That I went down the road to purchase. 
Proof? I thought common sense might be enough. The merchant agreement clearly states 5 steps for secure transactions that have been listed. These 5 steps if done carefully and consistently aren’t any quicker than asking for ID and being shown one.
In fact I tried it today. One customer hadn’t signed his card and even though it had his picture on it I pointed it out to him. I asked for an ID so I could compare signatures. According to the merchant agreement I should have called the CC company and asked him to sign it in my presence. No doubt he would’ve been pissed at the delay. I pointed out where it said “not valid unless signed” and he said the bank had told him not to sign it for security reasons. Make them ask for ID was the thought.