# What is a "Chistian" anyway? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 19, 2000, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-chistian-anyway/22877 "2000-06-19T18:20:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![FriendofGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ee7513/32.png) [@FriendofGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriendofGod)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2000, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-chistian-anyway/22877/21 "2000-06-20T03:36:05Z")
jmullaney, would you mind one quick comment from an actual, bonafide Christian before you close the thread? šŸ™‚ As others have said, believing in Jesus is the essence of what is means to be a Christian. However, in todayā€™s American society, we have totally watered down the meaning of the word ā€œbelieveā€. And no Iā€™m not trying to be Bill Clinton here. I know what the definition of ā€œisā€ is. When I say I ā€œbelieve in Jesusā€, I donā€™t mean that I just believe He exists and that He did all that cool stuff in the Bible. It means that I TRUST Him with CONTROL of my life. I BELIEVE He is who He says He is, and that I can trust Him completely. It involves a total change of direction and thought. jmullaney, I want you to know that Jesus would like to GIVE you a moral compass. You said ā€œI only ask because being an atheist/satanist is kinda lonely sometimes. I know what is good, and have chosen evil, and if there does happen to be a god iā€™m in big trouble.ā€ True. So isnā€™t it worth your while to investigate what Christianity says? You donā€™t HAVE to STAY in big trouble! God loves you and wants to give you a life full of direction and purpose. I pray that God will draw you to Him jmullaney. Please know this: He will accept you FULLY as you are, even though as you said you have chosen evil. God can give you a totally new heart that chooses good. Just wanted to let you know. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2000, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-chistian-anyway/22877/22 "2000-06-20T04:15:30Z")
Well, in My humble opinion, a Christian is someone who believes they have sinned, and that Jesus died on the cross for their sins. They accept this sacrifice on His part, and live His words. Denomination does Not make one a christian, any one can be a christian if they love God and their fellow man(sometimes not an easy thing). Amenā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![avalongod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@avalongod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/avalongod)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2000, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-chistian-anyway/22877/23 "2000-06-20T05:41:55Z")
Couple of notes: I think (and may be wrong) that the quote ā€œAnd it harm no oneā€ is actually the credo for Wiccan paganism, not Levayā€™s Satanism. I donā€™t think Levay was entirely against harming othersā€¦in fact I think he advocates warning people once that they are in your way, then bashing them if they donā€™t move. The OPs post seems more like an atheistic ā€œF&\*% the worldā€ version of Satanism. Sounds a bit like a mixture of self-loathing and anger, but who am I to say? ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2000, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-chistian-anyway/22877/24 "2000-06-20T09:29:13Z")
Well, they are kinda like Christians, but wih more ā€œrā€ s. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2000, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-chistian-anyway/22877/25 "2000-06-20T15:18:47Z")
Well, as I understand it (and Iā€™ll need to break out my copy of the _Satanic Bible_, Lavey was generally opposed to harming innocents (children and animals most specifically), as well as those who are not harming or hindering you. Gratuitous or malicious violence against another is not a part of his philosophy at all. Now, if someone is keeping you from exercising your rights, Lavey says by all means use force. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2000, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-chistian-anyway/22877/26 "2000-06-20T19:49:29Z")
Is it just ME, or do ALL of **FriendofGodā€™s** posts READ like WILLIAM SHATNER? :rolleyes: Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2000, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-chistian-anyway/22877/27 "2000-06-20T20:35:56Z")
Webster is certainly a recognized authority on the meanings of words. But on the matter of what a Christian is, Jesus might be said to carry authority of at least equal weight. ā€œBy this will all men know you are my disciples, that you love one another.ā€ ā€” Jesus ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2000, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-chistian-anyway/22877/28 "2000-06-20T20:55:45Z")
Ah, but the converse doesnā€™t exactly hold, does it, **Lib**? If one is a Christian, one will show love for others. But if one loves others, one is not necessarily Christian. ---
**Author:** ![felicia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@felicia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/felicia)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2000, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-chistian-anyway/22877/29 "2000-06-20T21:31:03Z")
jmullaney, reading your statement that the life youā€™ve chosen is a lonely one breaks my heart. I know someone who died a horrible death just so that YOU would never have to be lonely again. The loneliness that you feel is your personal message from God. He IS calling you, or you wouldnā€™t have even posted your message. God wants to change your life so that you can know what is good and choose it, not just because itā€™s what God wants, but because you realize that IT WILL MAKE YOU HAPPY! All of Godā€™s laws are not about ā€œDonā€™t do this because Iā€™m in charge and donā€™t want you to have any fun!ā€ Theyā€™re about ā€œHereā€™s how you can live a life of joy and contentment (not loneliness) on earthā€¦and HAVE ETERNAL LIFE with me.ā€ I donā€™t know if you have kids, but having children really helped me understand this concept. Sometimes my kids want to do something, say-play with matches. I could let them do that, after all, matches look really cool when they burn and they have that weird smell, but I KNOW that it will burn their little fingers, so I tell them NO! Not because I donā€™t want them to have fun, because I love them. God loves us, He tells us no because He knows the consequences of doing anything. Sorry, I didnā€™t mean to get so long-windedā€¦ the main thing I wanted to say wasā€¦if you want proof that God exists, you have it: Youā€™re loneliness, even if itā€™s only sometimes, is Godā€™s way of letting you know that something is missing. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2000, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-chistian-anyway/22877/30 "2000-06-20T21:42:55Z")
Hey there, **felicia**. Glad you could join us. If youā€™re interested, you might hop over to [Christianity and Love](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=26726) thread. Looks like **Friend of God** is getting a little frustrated and you might be able to help him communicate his thoughs a little better. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2000, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-chistian-anyway/22877/31 "2000-06-20T21:48:26Z")
Youā€™re evil, andros. Now Iā€™ll have two fundamentalists trying to save my soul from eternal torment. Iā€™m never letting you be my sock-puppet again. šŸ˜› ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2000, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-chistian-anyway/22877/32 "2000-06-20T23:56:09Z")
**Andros** > [@](#): > > _Ah, but the converse doesnā€™t exactly hold, does it, Lib? If one is a Christian, one will show love for others. But if one loves others, one is not necessarily Christian._ On the contrary, a rose by any other nameā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2000, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-chistian-anyway/22877/33 "2000-06-21T00:01:46Z")
Heh heh heh . . . ---
**Author:** ![oldscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@oldscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldscratch)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2000, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-chistian-anyway/22877/34 "2000-06-21T00:12:34Z")
Had to through in my two cents. OK. As otherā€™s have said you canā€™t be an atheist and a satanist. WHY? Because theists believe in the existence of gods or a god. Thatā€™s what satanists believe too. So either you are a selfish atheist or youā€™r a satanist. You canā€™t be both. > [@](#): > > From Mr. C\*\* > So, instead of being ACTIVELY evil, you just prefer to kinda meander through life, doing what you want to? > > I donā€™t know what the word for it is, but I know itā€™s not Satanist. I would lean toward Atheist, but who am I to define you? > \*\* Actually that is what satanists do. I quote from Glen Benton, lead singer of deicide and commited satanist. > [@](#): > > GB: I hate Christians, and Iā€™ll put it to you this way: If you fuckinā€™ step on my toes, Iā€™ll smash you in the face. Thatā€™s the way I look at it. Iā€™m just like anybody else. If you step on my toes, youā€™ll get fucked up. Thatā€™s just the way I look at it. Iā€™m not into lovinā€™ my neighbor, and Iā€™m not into followinā€™ some idiotā€™s fuckinā€™ philosophy. I donā€™t follow any personā€™s philosophy but my own. Iā€™m my own person, and as far as my belief system, yes, I believe in Satan, I partake in fuckinā€™ what I would fuckinā€™ consider fuckinā€™ ceremonies, I donā€™t fuckinā€™ā€“Iā€™m completely against God. I think that what Christians do is, by going to a church and getting marriedā€“you got married in a church, I got married by a fuckinā€™ counter person at McDonaldā€™s where I walked in, they said some words and I walked out. All right, it had nothinā€™ to do with God or anything. Itā€™s like a legal document. You go and get a marriage license, and thatā€™s it. A marriage license has nothing to do with God. So to do that in a churchā€¦ I justā€¦ No way, man. No. No thank you. > > O: Itā€™s weird. Iā€™m sort of hearing a response to Christians, and Christiansā€™ hypocrisy, but is it against Christians or is it against God? > > GB: Itā€™s against Godā€“well, when we say God, letā€™s bring everything in that falls into the fuckinā€™ text of God, okay? ā€˜Cause then youā€™ll understand. To me, God means not only that fuckinā€™ Jehovah sitting up in the clouds somewhere, in the fuckinā€™ lunar fuckinā€™ another dimension, or whatever. Okay? Itā€™s not only that: Itā€™s church, itā€™s fuckinā€™ people peddling their fuckinā€™ bullshit, itā€™s people fuckinā€™ becoming billionaires off of peopleā€™s fuckinā€™ sorrows and their lack of faith in their selves. All right? Itā€™s everything. Okay? Itā€™s like, when my kid goes to school, I donā€™t want my kid getting up and singing fuckinā€™ something that has to do with God. If the Pledge of Allegiance and all them stupid songs, man, they were written by fuckinā€™ ignorants, and Iā€™m not gonna have my kid be ignorant to that. So my kidā€™s gonna be one of the kids that leave the room when that shitā€™s being said. If we have to bring him home to teach him weā€™ll do that. While he doesnā€™t go around actually practicing evil, he just does what he wants. I can also throw out some quotes from the church of satan, but I canā€™t find any right now. For the record Iā€™m a commited atheist and materialist ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2000, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-chistian-anyway/22877/35 "2000-06-21T00:25:23Z")
Let me put in a good word for atheism here. As far as Iā€™m concerned, atheism is the necessary conclusion of a reasoned examination of the world. We are oppressed in this society, so it can seem very lonely, but the internet is a great way to find the atheist/agnostic/freethinker community. Try [about.com](http://about.com)ā€™s site: [http://atheism.about.com/religion/atheism/index.htm?rnk=c1&terms=agnostic](http://atheism.about.com/religion/atheism/index.htm?rnk=c1&terms=agnostic) or [http://www.infidels.org](http://www.infidels.org) to get you started. They also have links to webrings and other interesting sites. Bottom line, youā€™re lonely because other people who think like you are too afraid (reasonably so) to discuss their thoughts on the issue in public, not because you need JESUS in your life. Also, let me point out that atheism does not equate with being immoral. It may surprise some people to find that I am an atheist, but I think that abortion is wrong (except for IUDs and morning-after type pills, or to protect the mother), I recently decided that the death penalty cannot be imposed justly, I am married and take my vows dead seriously, I give to charity, etc. I have always thought that Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Wiccans, Atheists, everyone, gets their morals from the same source - what makes society work best. We are not that different when you come right down to it. ---
**Author:** ![avalongod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@avalongod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/avalongod)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2000, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-chistian-anyway/22877/36 "2000-06-21T00:38:20Z")
Just a couple of points to play Devā€¦well just to play. quote: ```auto I meander back and forth trying to decide if you meant this quote as pompously as if first seemed to me. The "As far as I am concerned part" is ok with me. It's the "necessary conclusion of a reasoned examination of the world" part that I find like witnessing...or anti-witnessing if you will. I can assure you I have made a reasoned examination of the world and have not come to the same conclusion as you. I have not embraced any organized religions either. But I do believe people who make reasoned examinations of the nature of the world can come to different conclusions. Yours is valid for you, but not for everyone. quote: ~~~We are oppressed in this society, Meaning atheists. I don't know about THAT...I mean I would say the fundie religious people sure aren't wild about atheists, but I think the population at large is pretty tolerant, and I would suspect atheists make up a fair segment of the population. I think atheists bring SOME of the ire onto themselves much the way fundie religious folk do...by asserting that their view of the world is correct and everyone else is wrong. ``` ---
**Author:** ![oldscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@oldscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldscratch)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2000, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-chistian-anyway/22877/37 "2000-06-21T00:46:11Z")
> [@](#): > > from avalongod\*\* > Meaning atheists. I donā€™t know about THATā€¦I mean I would say the fundie religious people sure arenā€™t wild about atheists, but I think the population at large is pretty tolerant, and I would suspect atheists make up a fair segment of the population. I think atheists bring SOME of the ire onto themselves much the way fundie religious folk doā€¦by asserting that their view of the world is correct and everyone else is wrong. > > \*\* Well. In 1944 and again in 1994, 96 percent of Americans told the Gallup Organization that they believe in God or a universal spirit. So yes atheists are in a distinct minority. We are not a fair segment of the population. And sure the population at large is pretty tolerant, but they canā€™t seem to understand why we donā€™t want school prayers. Remember the majority of Texans voted for school prayer, what I would call repression orf atheists. ---
**Author:** ![avalongod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@avalongod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/avalongod)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2000, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-chistian-anyway/22877/38 "2000-06-21T00:56:57Z")
quote: ```auto I did not know that and stand corrected. I seem to run into a bunch myself. quote: ~~~And sure the population at large is pretty tolerant, but they can't seem to understand why we don't want school prayers this brings up an interesting point in light of the recent US Supreme Court ruling. I am not very religious myself and don't pray, and I will admit to feeling....bemused I guess would be the word, when in the presence of those who do pray. Nonetheless, I never thought it to be THAT big of a deal. Usually back in high school when we were having that "moment of silence" I spent the time staring at the blonde girl in the row next to me. Fine by me. How do you, as an atheist, feel about the "moment of silence" thing. Private prayer is implied, but you could just as easily be daydreaming about monkey sex with that selfsame girl. I also tended to look upon the religious convections of others with an almost anthropological eye...I was always kinda curious what other people were up to, what they believed in. So I am kinda curious why so many atheists take things like school prayer so PERSONALLY...I mean I would almost think that atheists would just look upon it as other people being silly/wasting time. I could understand other people from other religions being a bit more upset...but then again this brings me to my curiosity if atheism itself does not become as dogmatic and pugilistic as many religions? ``` ---
**Author:** ![oldscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@oldscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldscratch)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2000, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-chistian-anyway/22877/39 "2000-06-21T01:09:52Z")
> [@](#): > > So I am kinda curious why so many atheists take things like school prayer so PERSONALLY Because itā€™s not us being subjected to the prayer. Itā€™s our children. I donā€™t want my kids being forced to pray or being told that they must worship god and they will go to hell if they donā€™t. Iā€™d rather the subject never came up. By having the moment of silence the schools are creating a religious atmosphere. Itā€™s the same reason I donā€™t want creationism or the theory that pi=3 taught is schools. ---
**Author:** ![avalongod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@avalongod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/avalongod)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2000, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-chistian-anyway/22877/40 "2000-06-21T01:19:20Z")
Oldscratch: I can appreciate that. Every parent has the right to raise their children as they wish. I wonder if the children of atheists will rebel by becoming fundies (and I donā€™t mean the underwear for two). ;j quote: ```auto I agree with creationism. What's this pi=3 stuff? I have heard that before but assumed it was just a viscious rumor. Wouldn't toying with something that could be shown to be untrue with a circle and a calculator be rather foolish? ``` [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-chistian-anyway/22877.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-chistian-anyway/22877.md?page=3)