# What is a cliche? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 6, 2016, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-cliche/759196 "2016-07-06T07:00:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-cliche/759196/21 "2016-07-06T15:33:02Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > I went to see an amateur production of Hamlet the other day. It was packed with clichés … _Casablanca_ is just as bad. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-cliche/759196/22 "2016-07-06T15:37:57Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > That was the point. He coined them and they have since become clichés. I din not expect to have to explain that on this board. That whooshing sound overhead is also something of a cliché around these parts. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-cliche/759196/23 "2016-07-06T15:40:16Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > I went to see an amateur production of Hamlet the other day. It was packed with clichés: Neither a borrower or a lender be; to thine own self be true; brevity is the soul of wit; to thine own self be true… There were loads more, but I’m sure you get the drift. [Shakespeare is Unoriginal.](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SeinfeldIsUnfunny) ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-cliche/759196/24 "2016-07-06T18:20:03Z")
> [@White SIFL](#): > > Wait, are those cliques? Only if they hang out in a group to the exclusion of others. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-cliche/759196/25 "2016-07-06T18:35:48Z")
I rememeber watching the movie " No country for old men" Every character and most of the scenes seemed so cliche I had a hard time watching it. I was shocked when it won an award. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-cliche/759196/26 "2016-07-06T19:38:42Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I rememeber watching the movie " No country for old men" Every character and most of the scenes seemed so cliche I had a hard time watching it. I was shocked when it won an award. One needs to differentiate between good cliches and bad cliches. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-cliche/759196/27 "2016-07-06T20:13:43Z")
Cliches are not automatically bad (though they usually are). If a character, for instance, uses a lot of them, it tells you something about the person. You can also give new life to cliches by using them in an unexpected manner. But usually, they’re a sign of a writer who is being lazy by using old phrases and characters instead of inventing new ones. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-cliche/759196/28 "2016-07-06T20:25:19Z")
To me, clichés are those phrases that pop up in people’s minds in certain situations. E.g., you see someone standing at a stove looking at a pan of water heating. “A watched pot never boils.” pops into your head. You can’t help it. It’s suddenly just _there_ in your mind. Yours and millions of other people. It’s just so expected. In terms of writing and such, a hack writer will put such a phrase in. Better writers won’t. Unless, of course, they are putting it into the mouth of a deliberately dull character. Consider the phrase “Suddenly, it hit me like a …”. Good writers find novel ways to finish this. (Or, even better, restructure the whole thing.) ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-cliche/759196/29 "2016-07-06T21:13:48Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The best way to avoid clichés in your writing is to have read a lot. The more you read, the more you’ll realize what has been done, been overdone, and been done to death. > > Never assume originality. Better to just be original. Otherwise you’ll just be flogging a dead horse. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-cliche/759196/30 "2016-07-06T21:18:19Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > Otherwise you’ll just be flogging a dead horse. You’ll never get it to drink that way. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-cliche/759196/31 "2016-07-06T21:42:49Z")
> [@AncientHumanoid](#): > > You’ll never get it to drink that way. :dubious: Well, you can lead a horticulture… ---
**Author:** ![Medici](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Medici](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Medici)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-cliche/759196/32 "2016-07-07T08:50:59Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Give us a few examples of things you’ve written that someone else thought were clichés but which you don’t think are clichés. Here is the most recent example of my complaint. The following is a stanza from a poem I wrote, and my critic opined that the reference to the girl in Amsterdam was a cliche. I didn’t, and do not, agree. There was a girl in Amsterdam, and in the East a Buddha. From one I learned the ways of love; compassion from the other. Regards, Medici. ---
**Author:** ![WilyQuixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WilyQuixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilyQuixote)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-cliche/759196/33 "2016-07-07T09:01:05Z")
> [@Medici](#): > > Here is the most recent example of my complaint. The following is a stanza from a poem I wrote, and my critic opined that the reference to the girl in Amsterdam was a cliche. I didn’t, and do not, agree. > > There was a girl in Amsterdam, > and in the East a Buddha. > From one I learned the ways of love; > compassion from the other. > > Regards, Medici. The line “There (once) was a boy/girl from x” is used a lot to start silly, often dirty limericks. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-cliche/759196/34 "2016-07-07T09:26:49Z")
> [@WilyQuixote](#): > > The line “There (once) was a boy/girl from x” is used a lot to start silly, often dirty limericks. I agree with this. It’s not the “girl in Amsterdam” that’s the cliche, it’s the phrasing “There was a (person) from (place)”. The dirty limericks WilyQuixote refers to are enough by themselves to render any attempt at using it in poetry cliche. It’s also been done to death on other forms of writing of course. It’s the equivalent to starting a poem with “I once had/knew/saw a (noun)”. It doesn’t matter what the noun is, the phrasing is incredibly tired. A simple rephrasing to “I knew a girl in Amsterdam” or “A girl there was in Amsterdam” would be a simple way to de-cliche it. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-cliche/759196/35 "2016-07-07T09:40:27Z")
It would scan better like this: In Amsterdam,there was a girl, and in the East a Buddha. From one I learned the ways of love; compassion from the other. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-cliche/759196/36 "2016-07-07T09:46:08Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Usually, it is a remark that is falsely attributed to Mark Twain, Abraham Lincoln, or Benjamin Franklin, because it has been circulating at least that long. … in the US. In the UK it will be falsely attributed to Shakespeare or Winston Churchill. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-cliche/759196/37 "2016-07-07T10:37:03Z")
Medici writes: \> . . . my critic opined that the reference to the girl in Amsterdam was a cliche . . . Why do you care what this person said? Is this the editor of a publishing house that’s considering publishing your book of poetry? Then maybe their comment is important. If it’s just some random nobody on the Internet, who cares what they think? (Hmm, of course I’m just some random nobody on the Internet.) My only comment on the four lines you showed us is not that it’s possible to slightly rephrase them to make it seem a little better, as bob++ and Blake have, but that it doesn’t sound like a very interesting opening to a poem. You’re going to write a poem about how you learned about romantic and spiritual matters? It doesn’t sound particularly poetic to me. It sounds like a short essay about your life. Why not just write a short essay about your life? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-cliche/759196/38 "2016-07-07T10:48:52Z")
In all seriousness, Shakespeare _did_ use a lot of cliches. Only about 10% of his plots were original; most of the rest was what we would call “adaptations” today. And despite that lack of originality, he managed to produce the greatest literature in the entire English language. Originality is overrated. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-cliche/759196/39 "2016-07-07T11:08:43Z")
With a girl in Amsterdam, there’s a sailor who sings of the dreams that he brings from the wide open seas. With a girl in Amsterdam, there’s a sailor who sleeps while the riverbank weeps through the old willow trees. With a girl in Amsterdam, there’s a sailor who dies full of beer, full of cries in a drunken down fight. With a girl in Amsterdam, there a sailor who’s born on a muggy hot morn, by the dawn’s early light. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-cliche/759196/40 "2016-07-07T11:51:30Z")
For those of you who don’t recognize that, DrFidelius is changing the words of a Jacques Brel song which has been recorded by various other singers: > **[Amsterdam (Jacques Brel song)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam_(Jacques_Brel_song))** > > "Amsterdam" is a song by Jacques Brel. It combines a powerful melancholic crescendo with a rich poetic account of the exploits of sailors on shore leave in Amsterdam. Musically, it takes its base melody line from the melody of the English folk song Greensleeves. > Brel never recorded this for a studio album, and his only version was released on the live album Enregistrement Public à l'Olympia 1964. Despite this, it has been one of his most enduringly popular works. It was one of the songs Mort ... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-cliche/759196.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-cliche/759196.md?page=3)