# What is a "god"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 8, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-god/655153 "2013-04-08T14:16:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-god/655153/41 "2013-04-08T20:55:01Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > Presumably there are laws that the gods themselves can’t violate, since there is no observational evidence for such violations. The gods hide the evidence from us. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-god/655153/42 "2013-04-08T21:03:33Z")
If they are hiding the evidence of their existence, what are they scared of? Bigger, meaner gods who are watching them? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-god/655153/43 "2013-04-08T21:06:27Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > If they are hiding the evidence of their existence, what are they scared of? Bigger, meaner gods who are watching them? Yes. But they could defeat them if they had a starship. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-god/655153/44 "2013-04-08T21:11:47Z")
Basic minimum requirements: serious control freak with immortality. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-god/655153/45 "2013-04-08T21:22:55Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > Historically, this is pretty accurate. But I’ve never understood why one would bother worshiping the lower gods, if there’s an option of worshiping their Boss. You have to remember that in most cases, these gods aren’t gods of everything – just at varying power levels. They have specific domains and things that they have power over. Even if the Sun god is “the boss”, you’re going to need somebody else to make sure your livestock have healthy babies. For instance Japanese religion is governed by the properties of “surface, temporary, beneficial, liberated.” This basically means that you’re not attached to any one god, only go to them when you need something specific, and your business is concluded when they give you what you want. You’re also free to “shop around” for other gods that can help you if your prayers to a certain one aren’t answered. In most cultures with a pantheon, while people or cities often have a patron god (whose domain usually has to do with that city or person’s craft or specialty) – they usually have festivals, temples, and altars for tons of gods. Because it’s important (and necessary) to go to all of them at different times. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-god/655153/46 "2013-04-08T21:23:56Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > If they are hiding the evidence of their existence, what are they scared of? Bigger, meaner gods who are watching them? The gods must be crazy. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-god/655153/47 "2013-04-08T21:28:19Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > At a minimum, any god worth its salt should be able to: > > - Violate or change the laws of physics at will > - Create life > - Communicate with humans > - Be immortal > - Have a conscious will of some kind Does this mean that you would consider an entity like Q as portrayed in Star Trek qualify as a god? I agree with four of these. As far as immortality is concerned, I feel that a god should not be hurt by ordinary means, but could still conceivably be hurt by other gods. Using this definition, I would classify the Star Trek Q as an example of an entity I would call a god. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-god/655153/48 "2013-04-08T23:17:53Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Does this mean that you would consider an entity like Q as portrayed in Star Trek qualify as a god? I agree with four of these. As far as immortality is concerned, I feel that a god should not be hurt by ordinary means, but could still conceivably be hurt by other gods. Using this definition, I would classify the Star Trek Q as an example of an entity I would call a god. Q got made mortal and vulnerable when he got kicked out in one show. But we don’t know if he can really violate natural laws or just uses laws we don’t understand yet. I don’t think the writers are all that clear about this. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-god/655153/49 "2013-04-09T00:45:26Z")
God doesn’t need a starship? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-god/655153/50 "2013-04-09T00:54:01Z")
Simple: If the Fates can’t kill it by cutting its string it’s a god. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-god/655153/51 "2013-04-09T00:57:52Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > So, that’s all the Norse pantheon out of contention then? Yes, they seem more like really powerful mortals to me, legendary heroes; but I’m no expert. > [@eburacum45](#): > > Presumably there are laws that the gods themselves can’t violate, since there is no observational evidence for such violations. Maybe the effects are highly local. I’m assuming that no gods have revealed themselves on earth as of yet. > [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Does this mean that you would consider an entity like Q as portrayed in Star Trek qualify as a god? I agree with four of these. As far as immortality is concerned, I feel that a god should not be hurt by ordinary means, but could still conceivably be hurt by other gods. Using this definition, I would classify the Star Trek Q as an example of an entity I would call a god. Yes, I would say Q is indistinguishable from a god, and is thus a god for all intents and purposes. If he chose to, he could replicate everything attributed to the Old Testament God, for instance, and the OT God is obviously considered a god. God-on-god interactions isn’t something I’d considered, have to ponder that. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-god/655153/52 "2013-04-09T01:17:49Z")
Similarly what is magic except science we don’t understand? What does “supernatural” mean anyway? If it actually is, then it is natural and even if we don’t how it works it works in some way; we just don’t get it yet. Same thing for most of these god-concepts. A creature with powers greater than mine is still just a creature and it’s being orders of magnitude smarter and more powerful than I no more makes it a god than I am a god because I am that much greater than a clam. Displaying powers would not suffice, no matter what the powers were. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-god/655153/53 "2013-04-09T01:21:33Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Similarly what is magic except science we don’t understand? What does “supernatural” mean anyway? If it actually is, then it is natural and even if we don’t how it works it works in some way; we just don’t get it yet. > > Same thing for most of these god-concepts. A creature with powers greater than mine is still just a creature and it’s being orders of magnitude smarter and more powerful than I no more makes it a god than I am a god because I am that much greater than a clam. > > Displaying powers would not suffice, no matter what the powers were. So, is that a vote for “there can be no gods”, or…? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-god/655153/54 "2013-04-09T01:30:25Z")
That there can be no proof of gods. You believe, whatever your god-concept may be, or you don’t. If you don’t there is no evidence that could convince you; if you do there is none that could dissaude you. The belief or non-belief serves a function for you or it doesn’t. Evidence need not apply. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-god/655153/55 "2013-04-09T02:07:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What are the minimum requirements for you to consider an entity to be a “god” or “God”? What is the dividing line between “alien” and “god”? God is ineffable and thus doesn’t have “minimum requirements.” In the unlikely event earth is an experiment being performed by some other intelligent species, I suppose you atheist fellows are right. Or, at least, God created the aliens and not us. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-god/655153/56 "2013-04-09T02:26:39Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > At a minimum, any god worth its salt should be able to: > > - Violate or change the laws of physics at will > - Create life > - Communicate with humans > - Be immortal > - Have a conscious will of some kind So, by your definition, all women are gods. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-god/655153/57 "2013-04-09T02:35:07Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > > [@Human Action](#): > > > > -Create Life > > Should be possible even for human science in the relatively near future Maybe [nearer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiegelman_Monster) than [you think](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycoplasma_laboratorium). ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-god/655153/58 "2013-04-09T02:36:35Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > That there can be no proof of gods. You believe, whatever your god-concept may be, or you don’t. If you don’t there is no evidence that could convince you; if you do there is none that could dissaude you. The belief or non-belief serves a function for you or it doesn’t. Evidence need not apply. Ok, I agree that the god-concept is entirely personal and subjective, but depending on the concept, it may well be possible to compile evidence as to how well a given entity matches up with the concept and draw a reasoned conclusion. Traits like omnipotence are untestable, but the ability to instantaneously create life, or the ability to halt the rotation of the earth are not. > [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > So, by your definition, all women are gods. Nah, based on my girlfriend, they fail the communication test. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-god/655153/59 "2013-04-09T02:37:49Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Maybe [nearer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiegelman_Monster) than [you think](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycoplasma_laboratorium). Neat! ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-god/655153/60 "2013-04-09T03:04:07Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Yes, [the Norse pantheon] seem more like really powerful mortals to me, legendary heroes; but I’m no expert. > \ > … the OT God is obviously considered a god. Urrmm? The Norse gods were considered gods too, as were the very fallible Greek ones, and so forth. It seems more than a little odd to me to draw up a list of god criteria that would preclude historical / mythological gods. > [@](#): > > God-on-god interactions isn’t something I’d considered, have to ponder that. And rule #34 raises its head… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-god/655153.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-god/655153.md?page=4)