# What is a 'Meme'? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 11, 2015, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-meme/727527 "2015-08-11T05:45:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-meme/727527/21 "2015-08-11T20:24:01Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > Both the idea of an Internet meme (captioned photo, etc.) and the specialization of the word “meme” were around years before reddit. Internet memes, sure. And image macros have been around for a while. But I’m fairly sure that the specialization came later. That is to say, among a certain crowd, if I said “I’m sending you a meme”, they would expect an image macro (with black-outlined white text in Impact font) and be surprised at anything else. It’s this latter specialization that I believe originated on Reddit. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-meme/727527/22 "2015-08-11T20:38:15Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I would say that an example of a meme is **a** religion. Or a belief in god or gods. But yes, a self-replicating set of ideas would cover it. They have to reinforce each other and help each other reproduce. A related word is sememe, used by linguists to denote a semantic atom. Yes, thanks for pointing that out. “A religion” is indeed more accurate. Individual memes become much more powerful when bundled together, but they are somewhat specific. “You go to heaven if you’re free of sin” and “Jesus can forgive your sins” are fairly powerful on their own, but much more so when put together. I think that meme-bundles are also much more stable than singletons. It’s why the typical internet meme has a short shelf-life; they get corrupted and boring if there’s nothing else backing them up. Meme-bundles like individual religions are stable because any perturbation has a restoring force from the other memes in the bundle. “Jesus can forgive your sins” is stable because the other memes require a forgiveness mechanism of some kind. So it isn’t prone to general drift. Less important memes may drift, though, which is why we still see some diversity in religion. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-meme/727527/23 "2015-08-11T20:45:38Z")
There was a good while there when the archetypical example of a meme, to the extent that hardly anything else was ever so described, was a computer virus. This analogy is also where the concept of something “going viral” (meaning, becoming a meme) comes from. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-meme/727527/24 "2015-08-12T22:10:54Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > It seems to be a word that inhabits the world of internet forums rather than everyday speech. I for one, have never heard or seen it used anywhere else. Dockor Who alien species: [the Adherents of the Repeated Meme](http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Adherents_of_the_Repeated_Meme) ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-meme/727527/25 "2015-08-12T22:59:52Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Dockor Who alien species: [the Adherents of the Repeated Meme](http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Adherents_of_the_Repeated_Meme) See also the memes in John Barnes’ “Century Next Door” series [John Barnes (author) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_True) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-meme/727527/26 "2015-08-13T01:25:07Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Internet memes, sure. And image macros have been around for a while. But I’m fairly sure that the specialization came later. That is to say, among a certain crowd, if I said “I’m sending you a meme”, they would expect an image macro (with black-outlined white text in Impact font) and be surprised at anything else. It’s this latter specialization that I believe originated on Reddit. I’m one of the other crowd. I would never consider a picture with words to be a meme. That’s a gross debasement of the fairly advanced meta-level thinking that went into coining the term. Note I’m not disagreeing with your assertion about Reddit. I’m merely saying that they apparently destroyed a good idea for a lot of people. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-meme/727527/27 "2015-08-13T01:31:20Z")
Well, a picture with words _can_ be a meme. But most of them aren’t, or at least are extraordinarily unsuccessful memes. Something like the original “I can haz cheezburger?”, though? Yeah, that’s a meme. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-meme/727527/28 "2015-08-13T03:16:18Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I’m one of the other crowd. I would never consider a picture with words to be a meme. That’s a gross debasement of the fairly advanced meta-level thinking that went into coining the term. I’m on the fence. I think that the most successful image macros (like the “I can has cheezburger” one that **Chronos** mentioned) do just barely qualify. However, even the best of these lack many of the “weapons-grade” tools that more powerful memes possess. Among these tools: - They come in bundles, such that the sub-memes reinforce each other. - They’re self-referential. The meme isn’t spread just by being funny, etc., but also because it instructs you to spread it. - They’re at least somewhat resistant to copy errors. This also might be achieved through instruction in the meme itself (“this is the word of god, and you are commanded to copy it faithfully”). Like genes, some amount of mutation is desirable, but not too much. So I dunno. A good joke is a meme, and also lacks these qualities. I’ll say that they barely qualify, but that they’re weak and pathetic examples compared to religions, languages, etc. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-meme/727527/29 "2015-08-13T03:22:09Z")
> [@Inna\_Minnit](#): > > Except that my answer was in and of itself a meme. Very meta. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-meme/727527/30 "2015-08-13T08:56:03Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Which is where they co-opted it from, I’m assuming. But then it’s not “co-opting” it is simply “using.” ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-meme/727527/31 "2015-08-13T08:57:45Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Internet memes, sure. And image macros have been around for a while. But I’m fairly sure that the specialization came later. That is to say, among a certain crowd, if I said “I’m sending you a meme”, they would expect an image macro (with black-outlined white text in Impact font) and be surprised at anything else. It’s this latter specialization that I believe originated on Reddit. Do a google search on “Internet meme” and find results only before June 2005. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-meme/727527/32 "2015-08-13T13:04:06Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I’m on the fence. I think that the most successful image macros (like the “I can has cheezburger” one that **Chronos** mentioned) do just barely qualify. > > … > > So I dunno. A good joke is a meme, and also lacks these qualities. I’ll say that they barely qualify, but that they’re weak and pathetic examples compared to religions, languages, etc. Agreed. I overstated my case. “Meme” as a noun meaning simply “a picture with a caption” is IMO always wrong. But certainly some specific pictures & captions (think some of Gary Larsen’s most iconic work or the original cheezburger lolcat) rise to the level of ideas that possess the rest of the indicia of a true meme. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-meme/727527/33 "2015-08-13T13:18:30Z")
Ok fine but now I’m confused. What do we call those little video clips which appear alone (no Youtube etc) and repeat again and again? ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlecCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SmartAlecCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlecCat)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-meme/727527/34 "2015-08-13T13:20:32Z")
> [@Ken001](#): > > What do we call those little video clips which appear alone (no Youtube etc) and repeat again and again? Animated GIFs. ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-meme/727527/35 "2015-08-13T14:08:41Z")
> [@SmartAlecCat](#): > > Animated GIFs. Hard G or soft G? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-meme/727527/36 "2015-08-13T14:14:19Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I’m on the fence. I think that the most successful image macros (like the “I can has cheezburger” one that **Chronos** mentioned) do just barely qualify. However, even the best of these lack many of the “weapons-grade” tools that more powerful memes possess. > > Among these tools: > > - They come in bundles, such that the sub-memes reinforce each other. > - They’re self-referential. The meme isn’t spread just by being funny, etc., but also because it instructs you to spread it. > - They’re at least somewhat resistant to copy errors. This also might be achieved through instruction in the meme itself (“this is the word of god, and you are commanded to copy it faithfully”). Like genes, some amount of mutation is desirable, but not too much. On the other hand, a gene that causes horrific birth defects such that no one who possesses it lives past the age of five, still counts as a “gene”, even though it will not be very successful at spreading. On that ground, the thought, “you must never let anyone else know that you are having this thought, nor act any differently because of it”, should still count as a (spectacularly unsuccessful) meme. I also object to the idea that a successful meme must explicitly instruct you to take more than ordinary effort to spread it. Memes like, “birth control is bad”, and “it is good to have a big family” spread by causing their possessors to have more children, who, being more impressionable than the general public, more easily pick up memes from their parents just through regular osmosis. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-meme/727527/37 "2015-08-13T15:17:28Z")
> [@sandra\_nz](#): > > Hard G or soft G? 😉 I always assumed hard G, since it stands for “graphics” in Graphics Interchange Format. And because using a soft G would make me think of peanut butter. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-meme/727527/38 "2015-08-13T15:21:11Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > I always assumed hard G, since it stands for “graphics” in Graphics Interchange Format. And because using a soft G would make me think of peanut butter. In internet culture hard-g gif is simply an image that uses gif format, soft-g gif is the fad of creating or finding very short animated gifs (usually from movies or tv shows) and using to show an emotional reaction to something. So gif is just a graphic format and “jif” is that thing my 20-something coworkers do in every email. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-meme/727527/39 "2015-08-13T15:24:54Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Agreed. I overstated my case. > > “Meme” as a noun meaning simply “a picture with a caption” is IMO always wrong. But certainly some specific pictures & captions (think some of Gary Larsen’s most iconic work or the original cheezburger lolcat) rise to the level of ideas that possess the rest of the indicia of a true meme. I can understand the confusion because a lot of memes also happen to be image macros, people recaptioning and recycling the same images that are highly recognizable (sometimes more recognizable from their meme use than their original use). E.g., the fist-pump baby, “one does not” graphic from LOTR, grumpy cat. And those are the easiest example to use to explain the net usage of meme. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-meme/727527/40 "2015-08-13T19:14:07Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > I always assumed hard G, since it stands for “graphics” in Graphics Interchange Format. And because using a soft G would make me think of peanut butter. It is a hard g. Graphics has a hard g so so does gif. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong and should be shunned. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-meme/727527.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-meme/727527.md?page=3)