# What is a miracle? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 4, 2002, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-miracle/107256 "2002-05-04T15:58:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2002, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-miracle/107256/21 "2002-05-05T17:32:05Z")
Drastic: I posed the questions I did for a specific reason. It was being argued in the Pit thread (which inspired this thread) that not too many people of faith _really_ believe that God works in their everyday lives (even answering prayers on less crucial things - the example in the other thread was of a person believing that God helped her find her lost Bible). Or, that _if_ some people do believe that God helps them in everyday things (He may answer their prayers regarding more everyday problems) they are “stupid”, (or even “dangerous”) to believe that, or that it is not according to Christian doctrine to believe that. I’m only giving my interpretation of the discussion, of course. Best to read the entire Pit thread yourself, to get the full gist of what has been discussed. > [@](#): > > _andros wrote:_ > Okeedokee, I’ll admit it. I find the idea of “everyday miracles” silly. I don’t understand the need for a God that helps me find my keys. But are people who _do_ believe in God being “involved” in their everyday lives “morons”? The issue of you thinking it is “silly” is one thing. That’s your opinion and that’s obviously fine. But that’s not the same as thinking that anyone who _does_ believe in God’s interaction in their everyday lives is “stupid”. (And I’m not saying that you, andros, have done that. I can’t recall all of what you posted on the Pit thread.) ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2002, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-miracle/107256/22 "2002-05-05T17:49:55Z")
Er, all right. I just don’t see how factual yes or no questions, where the factual answer (yes, in this case) render the inspiration material irrelevant, are particularly pertinent. I’ll just accept not seeing a particularly clear intent, even in a repetition of the original (and probably not in an upcoming third, but you never know). People are stupid, or not, and dangerous, or not, because of what they do, or do not–not what they believe, or don’t. Beliefs may be correlated with actions (I don’t think it is with the “God was involved in finding my other sock” formulation of miracle), but correlation isn’t causation. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2002, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-miracle/107256/23 "2002-05-05T17:51:02Z")
**Andros** , I can respect that. But if there is a God Who is, per the usual formulation, loving of His human children and desirous of their good, and if He is per spec. omnipotent, it makes **more** sense for Him to intervene, perhaps according to a principle of parsimony by making sure the need is met by the resource by means of an apparently coincidental “normal” event than for Him to sit back and wait, so to speak, for Elijah to be trapped on the mountaintop by 7,000 heathen Aramaeans before He does anything about the situation. Besides, doing His will to help out our fellow man, and knowing that He knows what’s needed even when we don’t have the foggiest, makes those of us with a desire to help others (which was, it’s presumed, also a gift of His) feel good about what we’re doing. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2002, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-miracle/107256/24 "2002-05-05T17:57:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Drastic \* > But I’m pretty certain some do formulate their faith in prayer in that way, because I’ve received pamphlets aiming directly at that formulation, so clearly there’s a market for it. So if that’s against Christian doctrine, it seems against it only in the True Scotsman sense. The reason I mentioned the question about whether the belief that God works in our everyday lives is “part of Christian doctrine” because of something Jack Batty wrote on page 3 of the Pit thread: > [@](#): > > Then I put it to you that most Christians who think this way, that God or Jesus helps them out with mundane tasks on a daily basis, knows f\*\*k-all about Christ’s teaching. I’m not as ignorant on the subject as you probably think I am. Christ was all about love, and not taking the authority of man as a given. I don’t know anywhere in any writings on the man where it says, “Ask me for help and I’ll show you where your lost wallet is.” So, since that issue had been brought up (and since it seemed to me that I kept on having to repeat "But many people _believe that God works in their everyday lives!!!_ ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2002, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-miracle/107256/25 "2002-05-05T18:00:05Z")
OK. I obviously posted too soon. It’s just one of those days. I think you will get the gist of my last sentence there. I asked the question about Christian doctrine because some people seemed quite skeptical that people of faith _do_ believe that God works in their everyday lives. ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2002, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-miracle/107256/26 "2002-05-05T18:15:13Z")
Ah, that’s a lot more clear, thanks. Jack’s quote seems a lot like a True Scotsman accusation; you see a lot of it amongst all groups, Christians accuse other Christians of not being “real” Christians, Buddhists do the same to other Buddhists…hell, plug in any group religious to temporal, and people within it will be doing it. My problem is consistently forgetting just how much stock people put in those kinds of accusations–which seem more silly to me than taking a few spare moments to calm down via asking a power for a minor spot of help. I’m reminded of Ambrose Bierce’s definition of “self-evident”: evident to one’s self, and not to others. 🙂 Sorry for the sidetracking, and not taking posting weirdness into account before. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-miracle/107256/27 "2002-05-06T00:56:25Z")
You remember in “Oh, God!” when John Denver asks George Burns “Why did you make it rain **inside** the car?” and George answers “You’re the one with the doubts, why should I ruin everyone elses day?” I don’t mind if God helps someone find their keys. I don’t ask Him for valet service much myself, but if He wants to do itfor someone else, I certainly don’t have any objections. ## Tris Oh, yeah, by the way, “Real Dopers” don’t consistently forgett. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-miracle/107256.md?page=1)