# What is a "nice" restaurant? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** food-cooking\ **Created:** [October 11, 2021, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320 "2021-10-11T20:54:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/282 "2021-10-25T14:10:30Z")
It’s all just priorities really, isn’t it. I totally get why someone would open a jar to save time, but I personally enjoy cooking and eating enough to give it an extra ten minutes (or more). ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/283 "2021-10-25T14:11:07Z")
On the topic of “nice” restaurants… On Friday my gf asked me where I wanted to go for dinner. As usual, my reply was, “wherever”, because I didn’t have a strong preference for any of the ten or so local places we frequent. But she insisted I choose. Eh, okay, thinking about it there really _was_ one place I’d prefer to go. I hadn’t been there in a few weeks and the owner’s wife just had a baby and I wanted to congratulate them in person. So I told my gf where I wanted to go, and she replied, “oohhh”. You know, the “oh” that gets across extreme disappointment without saying so directly. I was pissed off, but I hid it long enough to ask why she didn’t want to go where I wanted to go. Her reply was, “I thought we’d go somewhere nice”. We went where I chose, since the choice was forced on me, and we had a fantastic time. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/284 "2021-10-25T14:11:15Z")
I enjoy cooking as well, when I’m in the mood (sounds like sex, right?) Sometimes I’m not in the mood, but I live by myself, I have to eat every single day, so there will be times when I still need to eat and I’m not in the mood to cook. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/285 "2021-10-25T14:32:43Z")
That last post of mine was a little hijackey, but the conversation about what should be made “in house” is an interesting one. I used to be a professional (bread) baker, and I know that it wouldn’t be too hard to make restaurant quantities of _pretty good_ bread if you’re just looking to do dinner rolls. You can do that with a big mixer and standard ovens and have the bread baked off before you open for lunch. But if you want, say, really excellent crusty baguette, it’s more involved. I wouldn’t expect most places to spring (that’s a bread joke) for a proofer and a bread oven if there’s a professional local bakery turning out fresh stuff multiple times a day. On the other hand, pizza dough is easy as hell and if I found out that a ‘fancy’ pizza place with a brick oven and expensive toppings wasn’t making their own I suppose I’d be disappointed. Also confused. But what if they had a sign up that said they got their dough every morning from a nearby bakery? I’d… still be confused because pizza dough is easy as hell, but probably less disappointed. There’s a local ramen place that does its broth (the most difficult part) in house. I once asked about their noodles and they said they import fresh noodles several times a week from a very high-end vendor in NYC. Seems fair to me, and the product is invariably excellent. I wonder if the expectation that a restaurant should do as much stuff themselves as possible is a relic of times before modern transportation and refrigeration. The more they do, the more trust you can have in the product. Nowadays there’s no reason whatsoever why a steak from a nearby butcher won’t be exactly as fresh and high quality as if they’d taken delivery of half a beef and dealt with it themselves the day before. I’ve been in places with chalkboards near the front that say stuff like, “today’s beef provided by [local butcher] and today’s greens provided by [local farm].” Relying on networks of high-end providers means more time to focus on preparation. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/286 "2021-10-25T14:38:10Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > On the other hand, pizza dough is easy as hell and if I found out that a ‘fancy’ pizza place with a brick oven and expensive toppings wasn’t making their own I suppose I’d be disappointed. Also confused. But what if they had a sign up that said they got their dough every morning from a nearby bakery? I’d… still be confused because pizza dough is easy as hell, but probably less disappointed. Heck, in 1984, I worked at the local Chuck E Cheese and we made pizza dough fresh each day and that was terrible pizza (not because I was making it). If they can do it, the local place that aspires to really good pizza certainly should. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/287 "2021-10-25T14:39:22Z")
I honestly think if the quality is there, I’m less concerned if it’s bought in, although for example a traditional high end Italian place buying in freshly made noodles from a noodle maker in town would be…odd, because a lot of the expertise you’re usually paying for with higher end Italian is the pasta making. As a customer I’d find it weird, but not disqualifying per se of considering it a good restaurant. If there’s a smaller restaurant, I can make more sense of things like that, say a little Italian cafe that maybe seats 15 people and is in a very small space, I’d be less surprised to hear they have a local source of things like bread or etc that they buy in, and maybe even some types of the pasta, but I’d still be surprised if they were literally not making _any_ pasta in house. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/288 "2021-10-25T14:47:36Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Heck, in 1984, I worked at the local Chuck E Cheese and we made pizza dough fresh each day and that was terrible pizza (not because I was making it). Yeah, I worked at a Hungry Howie’s in high school and we also made it in house. The delivery drivers were responsible for mixing and proofing it (the dry ingredients were pre-mixed and they had a machine that rolled the finished dough into boules) and ‘inside’ workers shaped it and placed it in the pans. Very easy. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/289 "2021-10-25T14:50:05Z")
Oh… yeah, that’s generally not great. Some are better than others, but even then they almost always benefit from some doctoring with vegetables and seasonings. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/290 "2021-10-25T15:01:34Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > But what if they had a sign up that said they got their dough every morning from a nearby bakery? I’d… still be confused because pizza dough is easy as hell, but probably less disappointed. I think the only way I’d not look askance at a pizza place aspiring to high-end status who did that, would be if the dough they were getting was something like levain/sourdough or something that’s a bit outside of the normal pizza dough skillset. But regular old flour/water/salt/yeast pizza dough? They really ought to be making that themselves. It IS trivially easy, when it comes right down to it, especially if you have one of those big Hobart mixers. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/291 "2021-10-25T15:03:46Z")
Also because great pizza is ALL about the dough, any pizza place that skips over it really isn’t taking it very seriously. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/292 "2021-10-25T20:59:09Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > It’s competing with me swinging through the Wendy’s on the way home, it’s _not_ competing with me putting effort into a better meal that night, I’ve already made the decision that isn’t happening. I’m worse than that in some ways - I’ll do a ready meal instead. But then there are a lot of really very good ready meals, definitely better than jarred sauces. Plus for me cooking pasta in a saucepan is actually difficult due to arthritis so if I’m doing that I might as well make a proper meal. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/293 "2021-10-26T11:48:43Z")
For the truly lazy cook, there is already cooked pasta in a vacuum sealed pouch. Seriously. My gf bought some out of curiosity. She made her sauce from scratch one night, then dumped the pasta in. Would not buy again. There was something off regarding both taste and texture. And of course it was as expensive compared to dry pasta that needs cooked. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/294 "2021-10-26T13:22:57Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > there is already cooked pasta in a vacuum sealed pouch. Huh. I bought some uncooked, fresh pasta in a vacuum sealed pouch. At least, that’s what I thought it was. It was pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/295 "2021-10-26T13:45:00Z")
[BARILLA READY PASTA: Stock your pantry with delicious, fully cooked rotini pasta that’s ready in just 60 seconds](https://www.target.com/p/barilla-ready-pasta-rotini-8-5oz/-/A-52267843?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&fndsrc=tmnv&DFA=71700000087261890&CPNG=PLA_DVM%2Ba064R000011uiKeQAI-FCST_Barilla_H2_Oct_2021&adgroup=PLA_Shell&LID=700000001393753pgs&network=g&device=c&location=9006330&gclid=CjwKCAjwzt6LBhBeEiwAbPGOgeKQiJz8-AXPA4pkgYnwcrpAa8LtYP7WX3SQz-Q5PNSXl6-VklOmrxoCIvwQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/296 "2021-10-26T13:48:07Z")
The fresh pasta I’ve bought (not recently) is packaged like [this tortellini](https://www.target.com/p/buitoni-all-natural-three-cheese-tortellini-20oz/-/A-14930592) at Target; in a plastic tray. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/297 "2021-10-26T13:49:00Z")
Yeah, that’s more like what i bought. It was fettuccini, but it was similarly in a tray, stored in a refrigerator case. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/298 "2021-10-26T14:15:29Z")
Yep, that needs to be cooked prior to serving. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/299 "2021-10-26T14:26:26Z")
There used to be a place in a neighborhood that I lived where you could buy fresh, uncooked pasta. It was wonderful. They would cut it after you ordered it if I recall (this was 35 years ago). It was replaced by a store that sold bird seed and bird houses and stuff. I was sort of stunned that they went out of business, but more stunned by what replaced it. A bird seed store? Ooookaaay. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/300 "2021-10-26T15:08:20Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > [BARILLA READY PASTA: Stock your pantry with delicious, fully cooked rotini pasta that’s ready in just 60 seconds](https://www.target.com/p/barilla-ready-pasta-rotini-8-5oz/-/A-52267843?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&fndsrc=tmnv&DFA=71700000087261890&CPNG=PLA_DVM%2Ba064R000011uiKeQAI-FCST_Barilla_H2_Oct_2021&adgroup=PLA_Shell&LID=700000001393753pgs&network=g&device=c&location=9006330&gclid=CjwKCAjwzt6LBhBeEiwAbPGOgeKQiJz8-AXPA4pkgYnwcrpAa8LtYP7WX3SQz-Q5PNSXl6-VklOmrxoCIvwQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds) So, about 60 seconds less than it takes to cook fresh uncooked pasta? I’m blown away by the convenience factor! (Yeah, I know I’m not factoring in the labour of bringing a pot of water to boil vs popping the pouch in the microwave.) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/301 "2021-10-26T15:35:26Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Yeah, I know I’m not factoring in the labour of bringing a pot of water to boil vs popping the pouch in the microwave. It’s not the labor, it’s the time. It takes a non-trivial amount of time for a big pot of water to come to a boil on my stove. I wait longer for it to boil than for the pasta to cook, often. I mean, I’m probably doing something else while the water is heating, like making a sauce, or frying a chicken breast… (I don’t eat jarred sauce because it usually contains bell pepper, which I don’t eat. Not worth the risk, since that can be hiding in “natural flavorings”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320.md?page=16)