# What is a "nice" restaurant? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** food-cooking\ **Created:** [October 11, 2021, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320 "2021-10-11T20:54:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/101 "2021-10-12T18:57:48Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > When I _hear_ nice restaurant, I think any independent place that emphasizes either traditional or new prestige foods, puts some effort into decor, and doesn’t have televisions or loud music playing. You don’t have to be expensive to qualify, but like others said, being expensive tends to be a side effect of achieving these rather than a bar that has to be crossed before you can be “nice”. Pretty much this. My lady and I don’t drink, but we still spent $120, pre-tip, between the two of us at the ‘nice’ independent restaurant ‘The Creek’ in Boerne, TX: > **[The Creek Restaurant | Boerne, Texas.](http://www.thecreekrestaurant.com/main/index.php)** > > Boerne Restaurant. Located on the banks of Cibolo Creek in the beautiful town of Boerne, TX. The Creek Restaurant offers a fine dining experience in a magnificent setting. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/102 "2021-10-12T19:09:20Z")
> [@WildaBeast](#): > > My parents, from Wisconsin, though the bill of around $100 for all four of us was an extremely expensive meal. Are they the sort of people that think cars still cost $400 and always talk about how gas was a dime a gallon? Anything more expensive than fast food is going to be at least that much no matter where you are in the US. Heck, that’s not super expensive at some fast food places (Five Guys, looking at you). ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/103 "2021-10-12T19:21:44Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Heh, if we’re talking dress codes, that steakhouse I linked to earlier has one. Specifically, ties are prohibited. If you come in wearing a tie, they’ll cut it off, and hang it as a trophy on the wall (I imagine that they give warning for any patron not aware of this custom). Gah. They did that trope on an old episode of _Frasier_. I find that kind of thing completely obnoxious. A _lot_ more obnoxious than any so-called snootiness. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/104 "2021-10-12T19:38:48Z")
And I’m sure it’s been noted that location matters. I’m in San Antonio, TX, a city not known for its cuisine. It has gotten [better over the past 12 years](https://www.elitetraveler.com/finest-dining/restaurant-guide/the-6-best-restaurants-in-san-antonio) - more mid-range restaurants akin to The Creek above - but nothing, really, akin to NYC, Chicago, LA, or even Dallas/Houston. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/105 "2021-10-12T19:52:43Z")
I’m a little surprised at people calling Outback a “nice” restaurant. It’s mostly decent (I’ve had both good and bad food there), but I don’t think of it as anything but a small cut above the average chain restaurant. Olive Garden is horrible. One of the biggest inconveniences of the shut-down for me was no restaurant dining. I love going to new places, and I love good food. I’m _dyin’_ reading about all these restaurants! If I go to a “nice” restaurant, especially for the first time, I’ll always order an appetizer (often shared), entree, a side or two (also often shared), and dessert. I don’t drink as much as I used to do as I’ve aged, so I usually only have a glass or two of wine. For all of that, I’d expect to pay a bit over $100 for my share. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/106 "2021-10-12T20:01:16Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > Heh, if we’re talking dress codes, that steakhouse I linked to earlier has one. Specifically, ties are prohibited. If you come in wearing a tie, they’ll cut it off, and hang it as a trophy on the wall (I imagine that they give warning for any patron not aware of this custom). > > Gah. They did that trope on an old episode of _Frasier_. I find that kind of thing completely obnoxious. A _lot_ more obnoxious than any so-called snootiness. Would they (try!) cutting the tie off [this guy](https://www.viaggi-usa.it/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/cowboy.jpg)? How about [him](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/51/76/40/517640cface6483a37a46fde5fedc910.jpg)? 😛 Maybe [this fellow](https://assets.vogue.com/photos/5891a635b482c0ea0e4d9b49/master/w_2560%2Cc_limit/holding-al-pacino-best-and-worst-film-moments.jpg)? ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/107 "2021-10-12T20:31:11Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > > [@WildaBeast](#): > > > > My parents, from Wisconsin, though the bill of around $100 for all four of us was an extremely expensive meal. > > Are they the sort of people that think cars still cost $400 and always talk about how gas was a dime a gallon? Anything more expensive than fast food is going to be at least that much no matter where you are in the US. Heck, that’s not super expensive at some fast food places (Five Guys, looking at you). There is probably an element of that – I think their idea of how much dinner for four should cost comes from the four of us going to dinner as a family in the 1980s and 90s when my sister and I were kids, and based on that frame of reference seeing a three figure restaurant is shocking to them. But also, like someone else’s parents discussed earlier in the thread, they’re the type of frugal midwesterners who don’t do “fancy”. Their idea of going out to dinner is going to a lower end “family restaurant” similar to Denny’s. They never order appetizers or dessert, so they’re typical bill for the two of them would be just for two entrees and soft drinks, for a total bill of probably like $35-40. So they probably expect the bill for four people to be more like $70 or $80 at most. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/108 "2021-10-12T20:33:37Z")
I guess I’m misunderstanding your point. If I’m going for fine-dining, I’m very interested in the head chef. Depending on how fine the dining is, I’m expecting them to be a virtuoso, or at least a virtuoso conductor, orchestrator, or choreographer, whichever term best fits the analogy. So I can name several chefs where their restaurant is destination dining. Thomas Keller in the US and Heston Blumenthal in the UK are a quick two to mention. Below fine-dining, and in the “nice” dining realm, I know lots of restaurants where I can name the chef. Often, it’s because the restaurant is very good, and the chef is receiving critical acclaim. I guess it’s more widespread internationally than I realised, which is why I made the post about the Conde Nast WDC restaurant list. But there are plenty of very nice restaurants where the head chef isn’t publicly known. I guess my definition of publicly known is smaller than I anticipated, given that you were able to find contra-examples to the restaurants I mentioned. But if the chef isn’t a draw for the restaurant, and isn’t even being promoted on their website, then how much of a criteria is having a named chef of being representational of a “nice” restaurant. I concede your point that the two restaurants I mentioned have head chefs whose names could be found from an Internet search and not on the restaurant’s website. But if finding their names is > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > buried deep in marketing materials or a small and easily missed line in a menu then what benefit is it to the restaurant? Obscure references don’t help a restaurant > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > advertise and help build their reputation ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/109 "2021-10-12T20:58:10Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > New Orleans is awesome for food and drink. I love it. NYC, SF & Chicago round out the big 4 food cities. Then probably LA? Washington DC~no contest ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/110 "2021-10-12T21:02:51Z")
As I’ve explained–the point is a nice restaurant _has a head chef_, and generally the easy way to tell that is–does it mention that person’s name on the website? Menu? Maybe on marketing materials? Is it mentioned in the local newspaper review? You may not understand this but a lot of casual dining restaurants do not have head chefs, they serve menus that are mostly frozen food heavily cooked in microwaves, and for large chains these meals are all standardized with no customization or creativity put in by the person running the kitchen, who usually will just be a kitchen manager or similar title. Even some really good restaurants food-wise, that aren’t what’d I’d categorize as “nice” don’t have head chefs. There’s some killer diners for example that don’t have head chefs because that format of restaurant frequently doesn’t. It doesn’t mean you can’t find killer food there, but a diner is a different experience than a nice restaurant, and the kitchen is ran differently (diner kitchens are typically small, usually a couple line cooks.) ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/111 "2021-10-12T21:03:27Z")
Tonight my wife and I are taking her father out for dinner to celebrate his 90th and my 65th. We are going to El Gaucho, a small chain of premium steakhouses in the Seattle area. I have checked the menu and know what I want, without tax or tip my bill is going to be $115. I expect the total bill to push $400 when we are done. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/112 "2021-10-12T21:09:20Z")
DC has improved immensely in the last 10 years for sure. Also I was just at Bresca a couple weeks ago and it was the worst meal I’ve ever had in my life, taking cost and expectation into account. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/113 "2021-10-12T21:15:03Z")
> [@BippityBoppityBoo](#): > > Washington DC~no contest I’m curious what you recommend as far as DC’s that are “no contest” compared to NYC, SF, Chicago, etc. I’m not saying there are none or that they have not improved in the past 10 years. It’s just been my experience that they are few and far between. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/114 "2021-10-12T21:19:24Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > You may not understand this but a lot of casual dining restaurants do not have head chefs, they serve menus that are mostly frozen food heavily cooked in microwaves, and for large chains these meals are all standardized with no customization or creativity put in by the person running the kitchen, who usually will just be a kitchen manager or similar title. I’ve heard that and it’s a little depressing; I’m going out, paying all this money and I’m getting essentially a microwaved frozen dinner? That’s often what I eat when I don’t go out. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/115 "2021-10-12T21:29:06Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I’ve even seen Orlando in the 2nd tier group. Probably legit. I think your list of 2nd tier food cities is pretty solid. I’ve never eaten at a “nice” restaurant in Orlando _per se_ other than the Doubletree downtown, but it wasn’t for lack of trying. Occasionally before a concert downtown I’d try to book at seating at a place that looked promising only to find them booked. So downtown probably has some nice places. Disney World on the other hand does have several well-regarded restaurants. My meal and drinks at the California Grill were only barely north of $100 but was the most expensive single meal I’ve had, and was not only great, the atmosphere was great too. The wait in line for my seat was the smoothest I’ve had, since the bar was uncrowded, right in the waiting area, had an extensive wine list, and it was not a problem at all to walk right to your table when it was ready. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/116 "2021-10-12T21:31:17Z")
I was counting Disney World & Universal as Orlando, I think most people would. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/117 "2021-10-12T21:34:22Z")
Thanks… it wasn’t meant to be comprehensive, just a representative listing. And it’s entirely possible to have _fantastic_ high end restaurants in unusual places. [Skogen Kitchen](https://www.skogenkitchen.com/) in Custer, SD is one of them. If you’re in the neighborhood to see Mt. Rushmore, I highly recommend it. Probably one of the top 5 places I’ve eaten. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/118 "2021-10-12T21:39:38Z")
I think he’s saying DC rounds out the top 4 after those 3. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/119 "2021-10-12T21:49:38Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I’ve heard that and it’s a little depressing; I’m going out, paying all this money and I’m getting essentially a microwaved frozen dinner? That’s often what I eat when I don’t go out. With a head chef, your dinner may still be frozen— flash-frozen using liquid nitrogen and shattered, that is, among other things done to it. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320/120 "2021-10-12T21:51:27Z")
Yes, but at least that’s not something I can do at home. I usually wouldn’t order something like spaghetti in a restaurant, on the theory that if I can easily make it at home, why pay for it when out of the house? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-nice-restaurant/952320.md?page=7)