# What is a "NORMAL" school **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 19, 2002, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-normal-school/98985 "2002-03-19T03:33:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-normal-school/98985/1 "2002-03-19T03:33:04Z")
I have heard on older tv shows, most recently “Andy Griffith” about people attending “John Jones Normal School.” Or “Arthur Phillips Nomal School” What is a NORMAL school? ---
**Author:** ![Shiva](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@Shiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shiva)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-normal-school/98985/2 "2002-03-19T03:39:15Z")
A ‘Normal School’ is a teachers college. I’ll leave it to the brainiacs to expound. ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-normal-school/98985/3 "2002-03-19T03:40:21Z")
It’s a school for training teachers. It comes from the French _ecole normale_ “because the first school was intended as a model” (from [The American Heritage Dictionary](http://www.bartleby.com/61/41/N0154100.html). ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-normal-school/98985/4 "2002-03-19T03:41:21Z")
A school for teachers that was not affiliated with a university or college. I believe the term was borrowed fom the French, who were one of the first countries to have schools designed to teach teachers to teach: _École normale_, as opposed to an _école superieure_, which taught advanced studies in something. ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-normal-school/98985/5 "2002-03-19T03:41:42Z")
Dammit, Shiva! That’s two threads in a row where you got your post in while I was typing. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-normal-school/98985/6 "2002-03-19T03:41:50Z")
So Aunt Bee went to be a teacher along with Clara eh? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-normal-school/98985/7 "2002-03-19T03:42:37Z")
direct relationship between number of sentences and posting order!!! ---
**Author:** ![Shiva](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@Shiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shiva)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-normal-school/98985/8 "2002-03-19T03:52:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Northern Piper \* > \*\*direct relationship between number of sentences and posting order!!! \*\* Exactly! I answered the Q while you guys were looking up cites. 😃 Hey, at least I introduced you guys as ‘brainiacs’. 😉 Shiva (Why use ten words when 4 will do?) ---
**Author:** ![struct](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@struct](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/struct)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-normal-school/98985/9 "2002-03-19T14:24:31Z")
> [@](#): > > What is a NORMAL school? [Illinois’ first public University](http://www.ilstu.edu/) would be one.🆒 ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-normal-school/98985/10 "2002-03-19T19:07:44Z")
If I remember my history correctly, originally a Normal School was NOT a college-level institution but rather a type of specialized senior high school. The reason you don’t hear the term much anymore is that some of these institutions evolved into community colleges and the rest developed into teacher’s colleges. . . many of which subsequently adopted more comprehensive missions and now go by a college or university moniker. Many of these universities, however, still have large education schools within them. ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-normal-school/98985/11 "2002-03-19T21:25:45Z")
Bowling Green State University, Miami University of Ohio, Kent State University and Ohio University were all originally normal schools, founded by the state with the purpose of training teachers to staff public schools. One school was placed in each quadrant of the state in order to offer equal access to any students interested. Later on they expanded their offerings. If you go to what used to be the main building on the BGSU campus (University Hall), you can still see the brass plaque placed there calling it Bowling Green Normal School, established 1908. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-normal-school/98985/12 "2002-03-19T22:03:43Z")
Normal certificates were usually two year degrees which qualified secondary teachers - something beyond high school, but not a full college degree. Up into the mid-20th century many US states still had teachers in their secondary systems holding such credentials, who were generally allowed to continue teaching under a grandfather clause until they retired, even though the state had long since required 4 year degrees for public school teachers. As observed, many of the old normal schools evolved quite naturally into teacher’s colleges, which served the same purpose, but issued a four year degree instead of a normal certificate. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-normal-school/98985/13 "2002-03-19T22:17:04Z")
As other posters have stated, normal schools were originally created to train future teachers. Normal schools sometimes were also the beginning of a(n) university, offering a lot of majors other than education, and expanding to offer research, doctoral, and professional studies. [University of Puerto Rico](http://www.upr.edu) is an example of a(n) university who in the beginning was just a normal school. Yes, it still has a strong education deparment (I went to high school in their “model” secondary school), but it is more than just a teaching school with a college or university moniker. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2002, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-normal-school/98985/14 "2002-03-20T00:40:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CrankyAsAnOldMan \* > \*\*If I remember my history correctly, originally a Normal School was NOT a college-level institution but rather a type of specialized senior high school. > > \*\* I think Normal Schools were usually postsecondary, but looked upon more as a type of vocational school, like a secretarial college. But from what I’ve seen much of the nomenclature of a Normal School ran parallel with that of a high school. Students were called “pupils”, and the head honcho was called a “principal”. Then again, up until around 1900 there was a lot of crossover and interaction happening among the various types of schools. I have here in my office (who doesn’t?) a partial copy of the 1899 Semi-Annual from Los Angeles High School. The Semi-Annual was like what we’d call a yearbook today, but in those days a class graduated every semester. Be that as it may, this document describes track and football contests between L.A.H.S., the local Normal School, and the local colleges including USC and Occidental, and so on. It seems they all played each other freely and didn’t play only in their own academic level. Off the sports field there were other strange encounters; the book lists all the graduates of the “Commercial” course, which later split off and became Polytechnic High, L.A.'s second-oldest high school. One of these graduates came from a _college_ before entering the H.S. commercial course, and another graduate planned to continue her studies _in the High School_. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2002, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-normal-school/98985/15 "2002-03-20T03:17:20Z")
UCLA got its start as a normal school also. It was California’s second normal school, the first one being in San Jose. It was originally in Downtown L.A. at 5th and Flower where the Public Library is now located. Then in 1914, it moved to Vermont Ave. in Hollywood (now the site of Los Angeles City College) and in 1929 moved over to its present location in Westwood. In 1919, the Normal School grew up to be the University of California “Southern Branch”, but it didn’t give anyone bachelor’s degrees until 1925. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2002, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-normal-school/98985/16 "2002-03-20T03:42:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shiva \* > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Northern Piper:_ > > > > direct relationship between number of sentences and posting order!!! > > \*\*Exactly! I answered the Q while you guys were looking up cites. 😃 > > Hey, at least I introduced you guys as ‘brainiacs’. 😉 > > Shiva (Why use ten words when 4 will do?) \*\* [sniffy voice] Why do you assume I had to look anything up? [/sniffy voice] ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2002, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-normal-school/98985/17 "2002-03-20T07:17:44Z")
:: Hands **Northern** a tissue. :: Wipe the snob out of your nose. 😃 (Is **Northern Piper** NP-Complete?) ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2002, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-normal-school/98985/18 "2002-03-20T14:23:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BobT \* > \*\*UCLA got its start as a normal school also. It was California’s second normal school, the first one being in San Jose. > > It was originally in Downtown L.A. at 5th and Flower where the Public Library is now located. > > \*\* That was, of course, the “local normal school” I alluded to in my post. Naturally their library books were carried along as institution succeeded institution, and you can still find them in the UCLA libraries today, bearing the “Normal School” stamp. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2002, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-normal-school/98985/19 "2002-03-20T16:26:38Z")
**Mao Tse-tung** attended Hunan Normal School from 1913 to 1918. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2002, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-normal-school/98985/20 "2002-03-21T01:26:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Derleth \* > \*\*:: Hands **Northern** a tissue. :: > > Wipe the snob out of your nose. > > 😃 > > (Is **Northern Piper** NP-Complete?) \*\* hee-hee! nice, deflating, reply! 🙂 In response to your question, not only is Northern Piper **¬** NP-Complete, Northern Piper is not even NP-Compatible! See [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=1788014#post1788014). (My head still hurts from it!)