# What is a US Representative doing running a blockade anyway? (Gaza) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 30, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-us-representative-doing-running-a-blockade-anyway-gaza/479224 "2008-12-30T16:11:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-us-representative-doing-running-a-blockade-anyway-gaza/479224/21 "2008-12-30T18:29:48Z")
Blockade, schmockade. Israel isn’t going to do shit to an American boat. The humanitarian effort is more important than Israel’s douchey little blockade. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-us-representative-doing-running-a-blockade-anyway-gaza/479224/22 "2008-12-30T18:32:16Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Blockade, schmockade. Israel isn’t going to do shit to an American boat. It wasn’t an American boat, it was Gibraltarian. A Gibraltarian boat that now has a new sunroof. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-us-representative-doing-running-a-blockade-anyway-gaza/479224/23 "2008-12-30T18:35:19Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Blockade, schmockade. Israel isn’t going to do shit to an American boat. The humanitarian effort is more important than Israel’s douchey little blockade. [/QUOTE] I have to ask two question here…first, did you read the article? Second, do you have any idea at all what’s going on in Gaza atm? Because seemingly the answer to both questions is ‘no’. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-us-representative-doing-running-a-blockade-anyway-gaza/479224/24 "2008-12-30T18:38:01Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > It wasn’t an American boat, it was Gibraltarian. Ok, but it still had Americans on it, and it was still unarmed. Israel isn’t going to do anything to it. Even if there was a danger, that just makes the effort all the more heroic. Why does anybody object to people risking life and limb to help other people? Why is the US even tolerating Israel’s behavior in the first place? That’s what I’d like to know. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-us-representative-doing-running-a-blockade-anyway-gaza/479224/25 "2008-12-30T18:47:34Z")
So anyone who takes any kind of risk in order to support something they believe is right is an idiot? Well, I guess I know where that puts Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan. I mean, it’s a fucking war zone. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-us-representative-doing-running-a-blockade-anyway-gaza/479224/26 "2008-12-30T18:55:08Z")
How about those morons who worked on the Underground Railroad. That was _against the law_, man. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Batman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/22d042/32.png) [@The\_Batman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Batman)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-us-representative-doing-running-a-blockade-anyway-gaza/479224/27 "2008-12-30T18:56:01Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Ok, but it still had Americans on it, and it was still unarmed. Israel isn’t going to do anything to it. [/QUOTE] They did do something to it, they rammed it. For all the Israelis knew and cared, they could have cut the boat in half and killed half the people inside with the impact. [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Even if there was a danger, that just makes the effort all the more heroic. Why does anybody object to people risking life and limb to help other people? [/QUOTE] Nobody in their right mind would object to it if risking your life was necessary to help other people. But as it has already been pointed out, there were land entrances into Palestine that could have been used safely. If those weren’t available then yes, running the blockade was a good idea to get the supplies in. [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Why is the US even tolerating Israel’s behavior in the first place? [/QUOTE] Good question and one that is beside the point. The boat would have still tried to reach Gaza even if the US opposed Israel’s actions. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-us-representative-doing-running-a-blockade-anyway-gaza/479224/28 "2008-12-30T19:09:57Z")
[QUOTE=Tijuana\_Golds] They did do something to it, they rammed it. For all the Israelis knew and cared, they could have cut the boat in half and killed half the people inside with the impact. [/QUOTE] Had they wanted to kill everyone on board they could have waited until the vessel entered the blockade zone then blown it away…and been justified in doing so (though still condemned by folks like DtC) since the boat failed to respond to communications, was basically trying it’s best to maneuver around the Israeli boats and pretty much acting in a highly suspicious way. Reading the article, after they were rammed they refused any assistance…which, if the emergency was so dire seems kind of odd as well. All in all, not a shining moment on either side, but I’d have to cut the Israeli’s some slack on this reading between the lines of the CNN article. It almost sounds like the folks on the Dignity (_snort_) were trying to provoke the Israeli’s to some kind of response. [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] How about those morons who worked on the Underground Railroad. That was against the law, man. [/QUOTE] So what? Are you saying because they (the folks in the Underground Railroad) were right that means anyone who tries to do something against the law is right? If I trot out equally meaningless counter examples what exactly will it prove? Perhaps we should stick to THIS example…and you should say why it was the right thing to do and the right way to do it? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-us-representative-doing-running-a-blockade-anyway-gaza/479224/29 "2008-12-30T19:18:11Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > So what? Are you saying because they (the folks in the Underground Railroad) were right that means anyone who tries to do something against the law is right? No, I’m trying to counter the fallacy that because something is dangerous or illegal, it’s necessarily stupid or wrong. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-us-representative-doing-running-a-blockade-anyway-gaza/479224/30 "2008-12-30T19:21:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > . Why does anybody object to people risking life and limb to help other people? My objection is similar to **alessan** ’s. It seems that McKinney et al could have aided the Gazans much more safely, effectively, and cheaply by simply going through channels. It seems pretty clear to me that the purpose behind this stunt was one of propoganda: They want to make it seem like big bad Israel is denying humanitarian aid to the Gazans. Which is a lie. Not only that, but one wonders why McKinney is so interested in the plight of the Gazans. There are plenty of people in the world who could use some humanitarian aid. And there are plenty of people who would have done a lot worse than just damage somebody’s yacht. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-us-representative-doing-running-a-blockade-anyway-gaza/479224/31 "2008-12-30T19:27:29Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] No, I’m trying to counter the fallacy that because something is dangerous or illegal, it’s necessarily stupid or wrong. [/QUOTE] As long as you acknowledge the converse then we are in agreement. So, we should stick to specifics and look at this case on it’s merits…which you still haven’t provided why you think THIS case is justified. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-us-representative-doing-running-a-blockade-anyway-gaza/479224/32 "2008-12-30T19:29:09Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Not only that, but one wonders why McKinney is so interested in the plight of the Gazans. The plight of the Gazans is as immediate and urgent as anyone else’s. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-us-representative-doing-running-a-blockade-anyway-gaza/479224/33 "2008-12-30T19:31:04Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Ok, but it still had Americans on it, and it was still unarmed. Which does absolutely nothing to help you if you are deliberately hiding these facts from the Israelis by evading any attempt to board your ship. Isn’t that kind of implied by the act of running a blockade? > [@](#): > > Even if there was a danger, that just makes the effort all the more heroic. Why does anybody object to people risking life and limb to help other people? Because it’s stupid to risk life and limb in stupid stunts if you can help people _without_ risking life and limb? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-us-representative-doing-running-a-blockade-anyway-gaza/479224/34 "2008-12-30T19:31:16Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > As long as you acknowledge the converse then we are in agreement. I’m just countering the contentions by others that it’s “stupid” to run the blockade. I’m glad we can agree that’s an invalid argument against doing it. > [@](#): > > So, we should stick to specifics and look at this case on it’s merits…which you still haven’t provided why you think THIS case is justified. Sure I have. It’s justified because there is need. It’s very simple. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-us-representative-doing-running-a-blockade-anyway-gaza/479224/35 "2008-12-30T19:39:13Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I’m just countering the contentions by others that it’s “stupid” to run the blockade. I’m glad we can agree that’s an invalid argument against doing it. [/QUOTE] To be sure…it was stupid on it’s own merits, not simply because it was against the law. > [@](#): > > Sure I have. It’s justified because there is need. It’s very simple. And need (even if it wasn’t there) justifies all? Well, I guess there really isn’t anything more to discuss at this point. -XT ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-us-representative-doing-running-a-blockade-anyway-gaza/479224/36 "2008-12-30T19:43:55Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Ok, but it still had Americans on it, and it was still unarmed. Israel isn’t going to do anything to it. Because Americans can be identified from a distance? While engaged in a high speed effort to subvert military interception? 😕 If McKinney and whomever she was with really wanted to get aid to Gazans, as opposed to creating a press opportunity for themselves, there were other routes in that they could’ve taken if they represent a legitimate NGO. It doesn’t seem like delivering aid was their real goal. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-us-representative-doing-running-a-blockade-anyway-gaza/479224/37 "2008-12-30T20:37:56Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > They want to make it seem like big bad Israel is denying humanitarian aid to the Gazans. Which is a lie. I don’t know what news you are watching but all the news I am watching say very clearly humanitarian aid has been shut off for a long time. The Gaza strip has been very short on fuel, medicines, etc for quite some time now and before this flareup started. That’s what I am seeing. It seems even Egypt has the border mostly closed and only opens very sporadically. > [@](#): > > [http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2008/12/07/61556.html](http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2008/12/07/61556.html) > > Meanwhile, Israel continued its blockade of the Gaza strip as it prevented an attempt Sunday by Arab Israeli MPs to deliver aid to Gaza in defiance of the crippling blockade. > > Arab Israelis attempted to sail to Gaza with a shipment of food and medical supplies for destitute Gazans, who have suffered severe fuel, electricity, food and medical supply shortages since the blockade began Nov. 4, but were turned back. > > “We warned the boat’s owner that he would be breaking the law and would be arrested if his boat were to try to sail to Gaza,” Israeli police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld told Reuters. > > “This is a cowardly act by people and police who fear our delivery of medication to Gaza’s Shifa hospital. But we will continue to try to break the siege,” Ahmed Tibi, an Israeli MP on board the ship to Gaza, told Reuters. > [@](#): > > [http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/edinburgh/Blocked-Gaza-aid-driver-set.4418237.jp](http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/edinburgh/Blocked-Gaza-aid-driver-set.4418237.jp) > > Blocked Gaza aid driver set to head home - 22 August 2008 > > A DELIVERY driver from Edinburgh who waited at the Gaza border for almost a month in a bid to get much-needed medical supplies into the region is preparing to head home. > > Khalil Al Niss hopes a Middle Eastern charity will help him finally deliver his life-saving cargo next week. The supplies were destined for use in the hospitals of Gaza, where there is a severe shortage of basic medical necessities, but Egyptian officials would not allow them into the country. > > Mr Al Niss, 49, and partner Linda Willis, 51, from Balerno, set off for the war-torn area last month with a van-load of medical supplies donated by groups across Scotland. > > The couple arrived at the Egyptian-controlled border into Gaza on July 21 but were denied permission to enter. It just seems to me the Israelis are the ones lying when they say they are not blocking humanitarian aid or killing civilians, etc. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-us-representative-doing-running-a-blockade-anyway-gaza/479224/38 "2008-12-30T20:42:22Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > .. For reasons expressed elsewhere, I don’t engage with this poster. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-us-representative-doing-running-a-blockade-anyway-gaza/479224/39 "2008-12-30T21:02:51Z")
Yeah, it a convenient way of dodging the facts. Israel has been blocking Humanitarian aid for a long time now > [@](#): > > [Headlines for January 18, 2008 | Democracy Now!](http://www.democracynow.org/2008/1/18/headlines) - January 18, 2008 > > Israel Completely Seals Gaza Border, Blocking Humanitarian Aid > In Israel and the Occupied Territories, Israel has ordered the closure of all crossings into the Gaza Strip. The border had already been heavily restricted, but now all goods have been blocked, including humanitarian supplies from the UN. The UN agency for Palestinian refugees condemned the move, saying it will only worsen an already dire situation. Israel says its trying to thwart rocket attacks on the nearby Israeli town of Sderot. Palestinians have fired some 150 rockets since Tuesday, causing several injuries. Israeli defense ministry spokesperson Shlomo Dror said: “It’s unacceptable that people in Sderot are living in fear every day and people in the Gaza Strip are living life as usual.” The closure comes as Israel continues daily attacks on Gaza that have killed more than thirty-two Palestinians in the past week, including nineteen on Tuesday alone. In the latest Israeli attack, one Palestinian was killed and four others were wounded today in an airstrike in north Gaza. A Gaza resident said the situation there is catastrophic. > [@](#): > > [http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2008-11/14/content\_7205376.htm](http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2008-11/14/content_7205376.htm) > > A United Nations aid agency said on Thursday it had run out of food supplies for 750,000 Palestinians in the Hamas-run Gaza Strip after Israel blocked deliveries by the world body. > > Short of fuel, Palestinian officials shut down Gaza’s sole power plant as Israel kept commercial crossings with the coastal territory closed for a 10th day. > > Israel blamed the closure and the partial blackouts in Gaza City on cross-border rocket attacks by Palestinian militants. > > “We have run out this evening and unless the crossing points open … we won’t be able to get that food into Gaza,” said John Ging, a top official with the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA). > > Israel had initially said it would allow the delivery on Thursday of some 30 trucks of food and other humanitarian goods into the enclave, where a flare-up in cross-border fighting threatens a 5-month-old truce along the Israel-Gaza frontier. > > Israel also held up deliveries of European Union-funded fuel for the power plant, which generates about a third of the electricity consumed by Gazans. The rest comes from Israel, which was continuing supply, and Egypt. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-us-representative-doing-running-a-blockade-anyway-gaza/479224/40 "2008-12-30T21:13:01Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Israel isn’t going to do shit to an American boat. They did an awful lot of shit to the USS _Liberty_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-us-representative-doing-running-a-blockade-anyway-gaza/479224.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-a-us-representative-doing-running-a-blockade-anyway-gaza/479224.md?page=3)