What is African-American culture?

[pizzabrat]

@Marley23

Just to confuse things, I think that a lot of what we call African-American culture is actually American Urban culture. At one time it may have been more specifically black, I don’t know.

Like what?

[Marley23]

@pizzabrat

Like what?

Just to pick from the lists above? Ebonics, hip-hop, gangsta culture.

[Omega_Glory]

@monstro

Just for claification, I do not think black people naturally feel kinship with other black people just because they are black. But to say that there is no a comaradie–or, a sense of community by black Americans–one would have to believe a lot of things that I can’t just believe.

It is to believe that black people are more likely to make friends with whites than they are with other black people.

It is to believe that black people, in general, feel more comfortable in the presence of white people than they feel around other blacks.

It is to believe that you would never find an unspoken “nodding aquaintance” among black people in predominately white environments, like the workplace or certain social situations.

It is to believe that there is no black social scene or forum where black people come together and talk in their own way.

It is to believe that the terms of endearnment “sista” and “brother” are meaningless words concocted by deluded people.

It is to believe while white and Hispanic middle-schoolers aggregate at their own tables during lunch, black kids disperse themselves nilly-willy.

Well, not necessarily . I don’t think that blacks who very comfortable in a room full of whites must then feel less comfortable around other blacks. When I said that I disagreed, that didn’t mean that I was denying that some form of comaradie existed. The example about middle school is very true, but in my own experience, the sense of belonging based on race for all children strenghtens and weakens in those four or five years. I don’t really know if feeling a pull to join black churches would always count. I wonder if some of these kinds of people are looking more for a certain style of inter-active worship that’s not easily found in white churches.

Now, I have absolutely no doubt that there are some, if not many, black people who interact with other black people just as they do everyone else. I have no doubt that there are black people who feel no particular attraction to other blacks as friends or significant others, and do not feel a special pull to join black civic organizations, churches, neighborhoods, or attend HBUCs. I have no doubt that there are blacks who feel they don’t have anything more in common with a randomly drawn black person than they do your average white person. I have no doubt that there are blacks who feel they have more in common with most white people than they do with most black people. I have no doubt that there are people, like Cicely Tyson’s character in The Women of Brewster Place, who believe that black is just a color, nothing more and nothing less. I have no doubt that for these people, their feelings are genuine and based on their own experiences.

But I feel like these people are not the majority. I don’t think anyone can really convince me that black is just a color and that there is no underlying culture or shared experience that binds us together. It just doesn’t jibe with what I’ve seen and experienced. Hopefully someone will explain why they think I’m wrong.

These are the kinds of people that I’m talking about. I won’t say that they’re a majority, but I don’t believe that they’re that small of a minority either. As more black children are raised in non-black environments, the number of these people grows. I think strength of the sense of belonging one finds will depend largely on the region. Now since you’ve clarified your statemtent, disagree was probably not the word to use.

Your paragraph about basically being able to let your hair down with your black co-worker, and longing for other blacks was very interesting. I could get behind modified versions of some of your other statements, even though none of them would apply to me, or to the kind of person that I had in mind.

[Omega_Glory]

@Zhen'ka

For the posters who would disagree, would you care to answer my question? The reason I ask is perhaps that I had hoped (a bad thing in a debate) that her answer would reaffirm a belief that I myself had held. I do think (based on my own cultural upbringing) that their is a connection between people who share a culture, ethnicity or color (forgive me if this seems a crude term to use–but, in my experience, NDN people know each other at first glance (that means that it’s hard to hide being Indian (NDN)).

I think that the way someone answers your question will depend on the region that they were raised in.

I had wondered about the “brother” and “sister” thing, which is why I had asked her about it. Please excuse me if I seem to be pandering to even a benign sterotype, but to my way of thinking, I’d like to think that monstro’s experience is common.

If it is not, then why? I mention “being NDN” because one can not always “pass.”

I am curious if the other posters (or perhaps ** monstro**) are of mixed-race/multi-ethnic decescent?

I have no doubt that monstro’s experience is common in her area. It’s not as common in my area. In my high school the principal once tried to start up a black history club. It folded because of a lack of interest. Around 7th and 8th grade, kids of all races started segregating themselves, but around 9th grade, everyone started mixing again. There was a group of black kids that hung out together, but most of these kids originally came together because they’d known each other from toddlerhood. This was a small town environment where some classes had one or two blacks, and some had none. Some people might assume that blacks living in a very white environment (there weren’t any blacks working for the school system) would kind of band together, but it didn’t happen this way. Now I won’t say that no one from my area would feel the way that **monstro ** does, because there were other factors besides being a minority in school that are at play.

This is a tangent, and fairly rare AFAIK, but a lot of the people who feel little to no connection to others of their race were purposefully made that way*. There are suburban blacks who are afraid that their children will pick up ebonics, and the attitude that to do well in life is to act white. Some of these people prevent this by sheltering their children from the atmosphere that would promote these beliefs. This is sometimes the same atmosphere that promotes a sense of belonging, so the kids miss out on both.

I know the government did something similar to this by taking children from their families and putting them in white run schools.

[amarinth]

Well, it’s Monday morning, and I haven’t really had time to sit and think out a full, well written answer, and I don’t see myself getting time to sit and think out a full, clear, well-written answer, but I do want to respond.

@monstro

It is to believe that black people are more likely to make friends with whites than they are with other black people.

It is to believe that black people, in general, feel more comfortable in the presence of white people than they feel around other blacks.

No, it would bet to believe “equally as likely” not “more”

It is to believe that you would never find an unspoken “nodding aquaintance” among black people in predominately white environments, like the workplace or certain social situations.

It is to believe that there is no black social scene or forum where black people come together and talk in their own way.

It is to believe while white and Hispanic middle-schoolers aggregate at their own tables during lunch, black kids disperse themselves nilly-willy.

This, from my observation, is regional. When I went away to college, I could see that it was very true for people from certain areas of the country (especially the South). But from other areas, not so much. And “their own way” - again, not as universal. The expressions and mannerisms you mentioned in post #6, also (from my observations) are regional.

Now, I have absolutely no doubt that there are some, if not many, black people who interact with other black people just as they do everyone else. I have no doubt that there are black people who feel no particular attraction to other blacks as friends or significant others, and do not feel a special pull to join black civic organizations, churches, neighborhoods, or attend HBUCs. I have no doubt that there are blacks who feel they don’t have anything more in common with a randomly drawn black person than they do your average white person. I have no doubt that there are blacks who feel they have more in common with most white people than they do with most black people. I have no doubt that there are people, like Cicely Tyson’s character in The Women of Brewster Place, who believe that black is just a color, nothing more and nothing less. I have no doubt that for these people, their feelings are genuine and based on their own experiences.

But I feel like these people are not the majority. I don’t think anyone can really convince me that black is just a color and that there is no underlying culture or shared experience that binds us together. It just doesn’t jibe with what I’ve seen and experienced. Hopefully someone will explain why they think I’m wrong.

The direct question to which I came up with a different answer was

Would you say, in your experience as an AA woman, that black people in general all feel this brotherhood and sisterhood with each other?

I would have to say “No.” I wouldn’t say that it’s generally true. I would say it’s somewhat true for some Black people and that feeling will be stronger for some or weaker to non-existant for others. And there’s such a variance that I cannot honestly call it a “general” feeling.

[Omega_Glory]

Just realized that I didn’t answer all of Zhen’ka’s question. I’m about as racially mixed as the average American, but it doesn’t show up in my features.

[celestina]

Y’all goin’ have to excuse me because I done half read this here thread, but I want to add my two cents as a card carryin’ black person. Now, what I’m testifyin’ to, I done lived, and right now I ain’t got no cites for it, and don’t really know if I’ll be able to find any neither. So just settle down.

Black culture to me is instinctual. It’s bein’ able to sense when you lookin’ at someone who’s passin’ for white and know they some black folks in they family tree, but they don’t advertise that because they got straight hair, light skin and light eyes. It’s bein’ told you look too mixed to be pure African. It’s a shared understanding that non-black folks ain’t never *really[/] goin’ to know what it feels like to be black no matter how much they study the culture–though I’m not sayin’ they shouldn’t try to understand as best they can. Blackness ain’t somethin’ we can escape, nor should we. We can and do define blackness however we deem fit, even though we know that out there there are folks what will look at the color of our skin, the texture of our hair, or the vernaculars we speak and judge us according to the skewed psycho-social misconceptions that have been a part of the propaganda of America since the first African set foot on American shores. Well, and it’s knowing and accepting other black folks into the culture even if you don’t agree with them, or got to talk about how jacked-up they hair be lookin.’ Ooh, and I guess it’s a whole bunch of other stuff too, like how some of us be talkin’ about ghosts or workin’ roots and stuff, and folks understand and don’t be lookin’ at you like you crazy. YMMV

Now, y’all can argue over how African Americans really are those folks what stepped foot off the boat a few years ago, rather than black folks what been here for a few generations. And, I say, go right ahead. Whatever. But, keep in mind that them Africans what’re Fresh off the Boat, probably don’t call themselves Africans. They say they from Kenya, or South Africa, or Egypt, or Angola, and thus would probably call themselves, Kenyan-Americans, or ______-Americans since they know from what country they come.

Well, I got to run. ta-ta