# What is an appropriate tip these days? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 31, 2006, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-an-appropriate-tip-these-days/378621 "2006-10-31T18:48:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Kayeby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de0a6/32.png) [@Kayeby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kayeby)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-an-appropriate-tip-these-days/378621/81 "2006-11-03T00:49:51Z")
Melbourne, Australia and roughly the same experience as **TLD**. At a couple of hole-in-the-wall restaurants we’ve actually had the cashier apologetically run after us to tell us that we overpaid. Most restaurants are familiar with tipping, but nobody expects a 20% or even a 10% tip. Plus from what I hear tips are often divided by the waitstaff at the end of the night. My friend waitressed through high school and university and was paid anywhere from $15 - $25 an hour. Without anyone tipping she could still take home $150-200 a night and she was expected to give \*everyone \* her best service. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-an-appropriate-tip-these-days/378621/82 "2006-11-03T03:01:35Z")
[QUOTE=Long Time Lurker] You actually believe this? Perhaps if you don’t plan on going back. [/QUOTE] No, I can corroborate what **Martini** , **TLD** , and **Kayeby** have said. (Well, with the exception of Kayeby’s recollection of the hourly wage–I never worked in bars or restaurants in Australia; I only ever visited as a tourist and on business.) Difference is, I’m a Canadian accustomed to leaving tips. And at least in bars in Perth, Sydney, and Kalgoorlie, I’ve had my tips pushed back across the bar at me, usually with a “We don’t do that here” from the bartender. In restaurants, no server has refused one, but my Australian business associates whom I have hosted have informed me that tips are not absolutely necessary, as they are in North America. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-an-appropriate-tip-these-days/378621/83 "2006-11-03T16:44:02Z")
offshoot When I use a credit card ,I like to leave the tip in cash. A few years ago yhe staff appreciated it. Now not so much. Should I bother to continue tipping in cash. ---
**Author:** ![Carlyjay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Carlyjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carlyjay)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-an-appropriate-tip-these-days/378621/84 "2006-11-03T17:10:08Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] offshoot When I use a credit card ,I like to leave the tip in cash. A few years ago yhe staff appreciated it. Now not so much. Should I bother to continue tipping in cash. [/QUOTE] Actually, that’s very thoughtful of you. First of all, often (here in Ontario, anyway) the server has to pay a percentage of their credit card tips back to the house as a fee for the credit card charges the restaurant pays. It’s not fair, but it happens. If you leave your tip in cash, however, that obviously doesn’t apply. I remember one time when I was serving a couple of American tourists. The woman was paying, and she beckoned me close and said, “if I tip on my credit card, do you have to pay out a fee for that?” and I said, not wanting to make her fuss, “Well, yes, but it’s only 4%.” And she said, “I don’t care, I want you to get the tip, not your boss. Here.” And she gave me my tip in American cash. I always think of her when I describe great customers. She treated me like a human being and had an awareness of the facts of the restaurant industry. I gave her a free drink since she was so nice. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-an-appropriate-tip-these-days/378621/85 "2006-11-03T17:44:14Z")
[QUOTE=Martini Enfield] And pretty much every Aussie in the thread came in and said the cites were crap and that we weren’t expected to tip. Which were all _aimed at Tourists_, who are accustomed to tipping in their own countries anyway. As I repeatedly said in the last thread, no way are we going to turn down free money from Americans who want to give the waiter another $15 or $20 for just doing his or her job anyway. I am doing my best to avoid language that might get this dragged into the pit, but the last time I checked you don’t live in Australia and have never even visted the country, which means you’re talking out your ass. Kindly refrain from making Bold Statements Of Fact about subjects that you do not have any first-hand experience with, and more specifically, kindly refrain from telling those of us who live in a particular country “How things actually work”, especially when you’re basing said information on a Google search which has already been discredited by the people who actually live here. **TheLoadedDog** , for example, has already said tipping isn’t expected here (in this very thread!).. [/QUOTE] Since several other Aussie dopers have chimed in, and to \*some degree \* have verified this : **Spoons** :. “In restaurants, no server has refused one, but my Australian business associates whom I have hosted have informed me \*that tips are not absolutely necessary, \* as they are in North America.” **Kayeby** : “_Most restaurants are familiar with tipping_, but nobody \*expects \* a 20% or even a 10% tip” (Italics mine, much snipping) I never said Tipping was _required_ or \*expected \* like here in America. And, I wasn’t getting my info from “dodgy tourist handbook”- it was from _Official Australian Cites_- aimed at Tourists & Visitors sure, but even at their fellow Aussies from another area- not just Americans. None of those said that tipping was _required_- just that it was getting “more common in the better restaurants”. And, not just for Americans. For all visitors, inlcuding other Aussies. None were aimed at just Americans, either. In fact, many Aussies visit other areas of their island continent, and many other nationalities come there. Not just “rich yanks”. If an official governement tourist site was found giving advice just so that the locals could fleece rich yanks, there’d have been a few outcries by now, eh? And, sure **Martini Enfield** - you live there. But you also a dedicated diehard anti-tipper. That just _might_ color your perceptions and your posts a bit, eh? I mean, If I was known as a dedicated and diehard nudist, and I claimed that dudes here in California went around nude most of the time in good weather, and you posted cites that showed that nudity was rare here- would you expect everyone to beleive me- the extemely biased local- or you, the unbiased foriegner? Here’s some cites: [http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Australia\_and\_Oceania/Australia/State\_of\_New\_South\_Wales/Sydney-1869538/Local\_Customs-Sydney-Tipping\_and\_Prices-BR-1.html](http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Australia_and_Oceania/Australia/State_of_New_South_Wales/Sydney-1869538/Local_Customs-Sydney-Tipping_and_Prices-BR-1.html) These first are from _Sydney residents_: " TIPPING: is seen as optional courtesy depending on the expense of a meal and/or quality of the service. Australia has minimum wage standards higher than most countries so that staff do not rely on the tips of customers. The most common tipping is for restaurants and taxi drivers. ." “Tipping is growing in popularity but I don’t do it as a local.” "No service charge applies in Australia. Tipping is not mandatory but a 10% tip in restaurants and hotel bars is normal for good service. " “It is not necessary to tip in Sydney. People however often do tip waiters or taxi drivers and hotel staff for good or thoughtful service usually 10% for a food bill …” “These days, tipping is expected in most restaurants in Sydney. As a rule leave 10%, but if you really did have bad service and bad food, forget the tip. There are still some people around who think that because waiters are often paid relatively well that a tip is not necessary, but it doesn’t hurt to give a “bonus” when you have had an enjoyable experience” "Tipping is not expected but welcomed for good service " "You do NOT need to tip in restaurants, hotels, etc. " From an Aussie in Mackay "My tip here is don’t tip. It’s really not worth it as wherever you go it wont be expected. " From a Canberra Aussie: "It’s not compulsory to tip in Sydney, but it’s encouraged whenever you receive good service. 10-15% is adequate. You will not be hassled or treated with disdain if you don’t give tips. " Here’s from an official Sydney site: [http://www.sydneyontheweb.com/essential\_info/tipping.shtml](http://www.sydneyontheweb.com/essential_info/tipping.shtml) "Tipping is not required at restaurants or hotels. However, a 10% tip is widely accepted as a standard for good restaurant service. " And here’s what Wiki sez: > **[Tip](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tip#Australia)** > > Tip or TIP may refer to: "In Australia, tipping is traditionally not common and, beyond the hospitality industry, almost no service providers will expect a tip. Employers pay a sufficient wage and do not expect employees to supplement their income with tips. \*However tipping is becoming increasingly common at some establishments (particularly restaurants, cafes, upmarket hotels, and nightclubs) in large tourist cities such as Gold Coast, Sydney or Melbourne, with 15% expected for exceptional service. \* In recent decades, tip jars have increasingly become common in hospitality establishments, even in suburban areas of these cities. However, even in these establishments, tipping is often still seen as being an optional personal choice. " (italics mine) So, it seems like there’s a lot of room for debate on the “tipping in Down Under” question, with some \*local residents \* saying anything from “These days, tipping is expected in most restaurants in Sydney” to "You do NOT need to tip in restaurants, hotels, etc. " But everyone seems to agree that Tipping is more common now that it used to be. So, Martin- no, I don’t believe you. You’re very clearly biased. I do beleive other Aussies, and not just “tourist guidebooks” (\*none \* of which I have cited)- and I am sorry to say that other than "it’s getting more common"and “it’s not nigh-required like in the States” there is _no consensus at all._ Some say “it’s expected but not required” some say “it’s getting more common but not expected”. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-an-appropriate-tip-these-days/378621/86 "2006-11-03T17:47:55Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] offshoot When I use a credit card ,I like to leave the tip in cash. A few years ago yhe staff appreciated it. Now not so much. Should I bother to continue tipping in cash. [/QUOTE] Do you think that servers should pay tax on all of that tip, or just part of it? Personally, I pay taxes on all of my income, so I tip by CC. Besides, I get "points’ that way. 😛 In America, a business would get into real trouble if they tried to cut into a servers CC tips due to “charges”. OTOH, there are sometimes “tip-backs” that are all but 100% mandatory to the busboys, etc. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-an-appropriate-tip-these-days/378621/87 "2006-11-03T17:56:08Z")
[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog] IN AMERICA: - Never been, but tipping there seems complex, arcane, and scary. I’d probably blow it somehow. [/QUOTE] 😕 You can follow one rule, and one rule only, and get it right every time. Only the most petulant and undeserving of restaurant servers would object to the following: – If you sit down and eat in an establishment, and your food is brought to you, tip 15% of your total bill. Food, drinks, tax, the whole thing. Some Americans will say 18%, some will say 20% – and that’s fine. You’ll always be safe tipping a little on the high end … but 15% is still well high enough that no server can legitimately gripe. That 15% line is pretty sharp, though – a server can legitimately take offense at a 14.5% tip, say. It would be childish and rude of them to do anything about it (e.g. chasing you out to the parking lot), but they’d have right on their side (well, not for being rude, but for being upset). ONE SLIGHT, EASY-TO-SORT-OUT EXCEPTION: review your bill to make sure that no service charge has been included. This would only happen if you were dining with a large party (6 or more), and is by no means invariable. If, in fact, a service charge is included, you owe no more to the server. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-an-appropriate-tip-these-days/378621/88 "2006-11-03T18:13:26Z")
[QUOTE=bordelond] : That 15% line is pretty sharp, though – a server can legitimately take offense at a 14.5% tip, say. . [/QUOTE] I disagree, and few would bother to calculate it out. Many dudes don’t tip on the tax. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-an-appropriate-tip-these-days/378621/89 "2006-11-03T18:15:08Z")
[QUOTE=bordelond ONE SLIGHT, EASY-TO-SORT-OUT EXCEPTION: review your bill to make sure that no service charge has been included. This would only happen if you were dining with a large party (6 or more), and is by no means invariable. If, in fact, a service charge is included, you owe no more to the server.[/QUOTE] But you’re right here. In fact a few restaurants include a servie charge on all bills, but ifso they make it _very_ clear. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-an-appropriate-tip-these-days/378621/90 "2006-11-03T18:16:59Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] I disagree, and few would bother to calculate it out. Many dudes don’t tip on the tax. [/QUOTE] You’re right … 99% of the time, you could pass a 14% tip without raising eyebrows. I’m just saying that if a waiter goes into the back and gripes to his coworkers about your 14% tip, those gripes are justified. But just the griping is justified – not reprisals on future visits, not overt tip solicitations … none of that. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-an-appropriate-tip-these-days/378621/91 "2006-11-03T18:43:07Z")
[QUOTE=chowder] I’m betting it isn’t us Brits. altho’ I tip quite well when in the USA and other countries. [/QUOTE] Here in Orlando, Britons and Brazilians are widely considered the worst tippers. 'Course, there are a lot more Britons and Brazilians here than other foreigners, so that might have something to do with it. I figure 20%, round up to the next dollar, and then subtract based on crappiness of service. Really, really great service (which frankly I’ve never gotten) or a really, really hot bartender/server gets a substantial increase. I have been known to tip 50% on occasion. ---
**Author:** ![Ultraviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c77e96/32.png) [@Ultraviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ultraviolet)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-an-appropriate-tip-these-days/378621/92 "2006-11-03T19:01:40Z")
One thing I don’t understand, though. Canadians seem to be participating in this thread as though the tipping situation here is the same as in the US. Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but all servers here earn minimum wage, don’t they ($8.00 / hr here in BC)? It’s not some artificially lower ($2.15 or whatever in the US) number that requires tips to bump it up to minimum wage. So, is the tipping situation here different? (I always tip 15% or more, but never paid much attention to what others do). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-an-appropriate-tip-these-days/378621/93 "2006-11-03T19:26:25Z")
[QUOTE=Ultraviolet] One thing I don’t understand, though. Canadians seem to be participating in this thread as though the tipping situation here is the same as in the US. Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but all servers here earn minimum wage, don’t they ($8.00 / hr here in BC)? It’s not some artificially lower ($2.15 or whatever in the US) number that requires tips to bump it up to minimum wage. So, is the tipping situation here different? (I always tip 15% or more, but never paid much attention to what others do). [/QUOTE] If it isn’t, it bloody well ought to be. Here in the US, I don’t know a server in a mid- or high-level restaurant that doesn’t make very good money, as long as they’ve been there long enough to work the good shifts. Another point about tipping: I work in retail sales (I run a sunglass store). In four-odd years, I’ve been tipped for helping a customer who was _buying_ something exactly ONCE… and I spent four hours with him, finding glasses for him, his wife, and four children. Even then, I certainly wasn’t expecting a tip, and I made sure he knew I was making a commission from the sale before accepting it. If, however, you’re in a store of any kind and you get help with something that isn’t their official line of business (for example, a jeweler adjusting a watch that you didn’t buy there) you should tip, as long as the service is free. People come in every day with sunglasses or eyeglasses that need fixing… and there isn’t another sunglass store (or optician) on site. It’s technically illegal for me to do anything with your prescription eyeglasses or sunglasses other than clean them. However, if I won’t, you’re SOL, so if you’ve lost a screw or a nosepad I’ll replace it, because I’m nice. Same thing goes for regular sunglasses. I’ll even replace camera screws for the people who were smart enough to ask. We do not charge for those services; I don’t expect to be tipped. Still, if I were the one getting free service, I’d tip. I’d certainly at least offer. Some people buy something small instead, so they don’t feel like freeloaders. That’s fine, but if you’re doing it just for that reason, ask the associate if there’s anything they “recommend”- if you buy, say, a sunglass cord, it actually hurts my sales numbers rather than helping them. If you buy a cleaning kit, a) you might actually use it, and b) it helps me out. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-an-appropriate-tip-these-days/378621/94 "2006-11-03T19:48:08Z")
[QUOTE=Martini Enfield] Out of curiosity, why do people feel they should tip the _bartender_ $1 for each drink? It’s not like there’s any real work involved in pulling a beer or pouring a shot of Bourbon into a glass full of ice and/or Coca-Cola. And yes, I have worked in a bar. I stand behind my assertion that the bartender doesn’t deserve $1 per drink, even for something “complicated” which they may have to look up. [/QUOTE] Depends on the bar, and how crowded - a relatively large tip at the onset, I have found, ensures good and quick service thereafter when it’s a struggle to keep the party well lubricated with minimum fuss and muss, when just getting to the bar is difficult or the staff is real busy on the floor. ---
**Author:** ![Carlyjay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Carlyjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carlyjay)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-an-appropriate-tip-these-days/378621/95 "2006-11-03T20:12:31Z")
[QUOTE=Ultraviolet] One thing I don’t understand, though. Canadians seem to be participating in this thread as though the tipping situation here is the same as in the US. Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but all servers here earn minimum wage, don’t they ($8.00 / hr here in BC)? It’s not some artificially lower ($2.15 or whatever in the US) number that requires tips to bump it up to minimum wage. So, is the tipping situation here different? (I always tip 15% or more, but never paid much attention to what others do). [/QUOTE] Are you kidding? Not in Ontario, we don’t. The minimum wage in Ontario for servers and bartenders and other such jobs is lower than regular minimum wage. I don’t know what’s going on in BC, but the most I ever made per hour as a waitress was $7.25, and that’s when I was \*managing \* the place as well. We aren’t at two bucks like the States, that’s true. It was $6.50 when I quit the industry. And $6.50/hr doesn’t pay rent even in the cheapest, most cockroach-infested places you can find in Toronto, no siree. ---
**Author:** ![Carlyjay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Carlyjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carlyjay)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-an-appropriate-tip-these-days/378621/96 "2006-11-03T20:17:43Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] We do not charge for those services; I don’t expect to be tipped. Still, if I were the one getting free service, I’d tip. [/QUOTE] Excellent point. On this note, please remember that even if you have a coupon or a gift certificate for a restaurant, you should still tip your server on the amount the bill was _before the discount was applied_. Your server is still tipping out on sales, and more importantly, they still did the work of a $100 bill, so please tip them, even if you got the meal for free on gift certificates. And while we’re talking about gift certificates, bear in mind that most places do not consider gift certificates to be the same as cash. You have a G.C. for $50 and you only spend $40, don’t give the G.C. to the server and expect that the extra $10 is their tip. Most restaurants don’t allow that. The server doesn’t see that money; the restaurant just absorbs it. Always ask before assuming your gift certificate works like cash. ---
**Author:** ![Ultraviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c77e96/32.png) [@Ultraviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ultraviolet)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-an-appropriate-tip-these-days/378621/97 "2006-11-03T21:00:57Z")
[QUOTE=Carlyjay] Are you kidding? Not in Ontario, we don’t. The minimum wage in Ontario for servers and bartenders and other such jobs is lower than regular minimum wage. I don’t know what’s going on in BC, but the most I ever made per hour as a waitress was $7.25, and that’s when I was \*managing \* the place as well. [/QUOTE] Well, I did some research for my own info, and according to Wikipedia (check the table at the bottom of the page), [Minimum wage in Canada - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wages_in_Canada), the only provinces in Canada that have lower minimum wages for tip-earners are Ontario and Quebec (.75-1.00 less per hr.) ---
**Author:** ![Carlyjay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Carlyjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carlyjay)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-an-appropriate-tip-these-days/378621/98 "2006-11-03T21:21:28Z")
[QUOTE=Ultraviolet] Well, I did some research for my own info, and according to Wikipedia (check the table at the bottom of the page), [Minimum wage in Canada - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wages_in_Canada), the only provinces in Canada that have lower minimum wages for tip-earners are Ontario and Quebec (.75-1.00 less per hr.) [/QUOTE] Hm! Would that all Ontario and Quebec servers could move to BC, then. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-an-appropriate-tip-these-days/378621.md?page=4)