What is an appropriate tip these days?

[MizGrand]

Okay, I’ve got an issue here. Putting aside the “tip outs” please explain to me why, at a nice restaurant if I order a $60 lobster tail instead of the $20 chicken entree, is the service any more difficult? After tax, I’m paying $65.25 for the lobster. If having the chicken I pay $21.75 including tax. On the lobster I’m expected to plop down an additional $13.05 for the tip (if taxes are included); if having chicken it’s $4.35. Does carrying the lobster instead of the chicken deserve an additional $8 simply because it cost more?

Now THAT’s what I don’t understand about tipping. Again mentioning that we’re putting aside the tip outs in my fantasy world.

I’d be all for a flat pre-stated “service charge” if it were fair. Sheesh, I’m already popping on an expensive dinner treat (a real treat) but that it costs more yet doesn’t require any extra work for the waitron grinds my gears when they’re expecting the high tip simply because I chose to splurge for an evening. The waiter/ess didn’t work any harder, or smarter, they simply brought an expensive plate to the table. They do nothing different from the chicken entree, yet the service is worth three times as much?

Tipping Out sucks. If I wanted to tip the busboy for great clearing or water-filling, I should be allowed to do so. I now ask in certain places if the tips are pooled, and if someone did something special for me I tell them specifically “this if for you - shove it down your pants or something”.

Not to liken fine dining to Starbucks or anything, but if I toss a couple coins in the tip box and find that the barrista took extra care or did something unusual for me, they get a buck in their hand, not from the box. But they prolly take their share from the box too.

All too damn confusing. Please don’t kill me.

[Kalhoun]

@Martini Enfield

Out of curiosity, why do people feel they should tip the bartender $1 for each drink? It’s not like there’s any real work involved in pulling a beer or pouring a shot of Bourbon into a glass full of ice and/or Coca-Cola.

And yes, I have worked in a bar. I stand behind my assertion that the bartender doesn’t deserve $1 per drink, even for something “complicated” which they may have to look up.

Simplicity. Depending on where I’m drinking, I’ll sometimes just scoot the change from each drink to the bartender, or I’ll tip every other drink. If it’s a snazzy place (and it’s usually not), I’ll do a buck each. Sometimes they’re actually expensive enough to warrant it.

[Kalhoun]

@RSSchen

Okay, I’ve got an issue here. Putting aside the “tip outs” please explain to me why, at a nice restaurant if I order a $60 lobster tail instead of the $20 chicken entree, is the service any more difficult? After tax, I’m paying $65.25 for the lobster. If having the chicken I pay $21.75 including tax. On the lobster I’m expected to plop down an additional $13.05 for the tip (if taxes are included); if having chicken it’s $4.35. Does carrying the lobster instead of the chicken deserve an additional $8 simply because it cost more?

Now THAT’s what I don’t understand about tipping. Again mentioning that we’re putting aside the tip outs in my fantasy world.

I’d be all for a flat pre-stated “service charge” if it were fair. Sheesh, I’m already popping on an expensive dinner treat (a real treat) but that it costs more yet doesn’t require any extra work for the waitron grinds my gears when they’re expecting the high tip simply because I chose to splurge for an evening. The waiter/ess didn’t work any harder, or smarter, they simply brought an expensive plate to the table. They do nothing different from the chicken entree, yet the service is worth three times as much?

Tipping Out sucks. If I wanted to tip the busboy for great clearing or water-filling, I should be allowed to do so. I now ask in certain places if the tips are pooled, and if someone did something special for me I tell them specifically “this if for you - shove it down your pants or something”.

Not to liken fine dining to Starbucks or anything, but if I toss a couple coins in the tip box and find that the barrista took extra care or did something unusual for me, they get a buck in their hand, not from the box. But they prolly take their share from the box too.

All too damn confusing. Please don’t kill me.

There’s no logic to tipping. It’s just done.

I’ve posted in other threads on how I simply will NOT do the automatic tip thing. I tip according to how good the service is. I don’t care if I’m with a party of ten…if they screw up the orders or take too long, tough shit. I’ll give you what I consider to be a fair tip.

[Martini_Enfield]

@Kalhoun

Simplicity. Depending on where I’m drinking, I’ll sometimes just scoot the change from each drink to the bartender, or I’ll tip every other drink. If it’s a snazzy place (and it’s usually not), I’ll do a buck each. Sometimes they’re actually expensive enough to warrant it.

Perhaps I’m missing something, but what has the price of the drink got to do with the tip? It’s exactly the same amount of work to pour a shot of Knob Creek into a glass with some ice as it is to pour a shot of Jim Beam. Even most cocktails- unless you work somewhere really upmarket- don’t involve that much work.

If I got $1 per drink I poured when I worked in a bar, I could afford to drive a BMW, live in a really swish house, and take overseas holidays every couple of months. Bartenders in the US must be quite the economic powerhouse…

[Martini_Enfield]

@Kalhoun

I’ve posted in other threads on how I simply will NOT do the automatic tip thing. I tip according to how good the service is. I don’t care if I’m with a party of ten…if they screw up the orders or take too long, tough shit. I’ll give you what I consider to be a fair tip.

This is the thing: A lot of people (myself included) consider NO tip to be a fair tip, or, at best, a buck or two. Looks like I’ll be doing a lot of cooking the next time I visit the US…

[Kalhoun]

@Martini Enfield

This is the thing: A lot of people (myself included) consider NO tip to be a fair tip, or, at best, a buck or two. Looks like I’ll be doing a lot of cooking the next time I visit the US…

Well, the idea is that you tip for service. No tip is never acceptable at a sit-down-and-be-waited-on restaurant. Unless they REALLY suck. To receive good service is to tip. But since it’s not a law, waitfolk will receive a variety of tips, depending on who’s doing the tipping. I was raised to be a good tipper for good service. If I’m in a snazzy joint, I’ll go 25%.

[TheLoadedDog]

@Kalhoun

Well, the idea is that you tip for service. No tip is never acceptable at a sit-down-and-be-waited-on restaurant. Unless they REALLY suck. To receive good service is to tip. But since it’s not a law, waitfolk will receive a variety of tips, depending on who’s doing the tipping. I was raised to be a good tipper for good service. If I’m in a snazzy joint, I’ll go 25%.

What Martini Enfield says is traditionally correct for the Australian experience (though it’s slowly changing). This is not to say our method is either superior or inferior to the US one frm any sort of ethical perspective, but it would seem that tipping in many countries (incl. the US) is tied to the notion that folks in the hospitality industry earn low wages and a tip is actually a part of their income and not an “extra”. For the average Australian, tipping a waiter is a bit like tipping a bus driver or a newspaper vendor.

[Martini_Enfield]

@TheLoadedDog

What Martini Enfield says is traditionally correct for the Australian experience (though it’s slowly changing). This is not to say our method is either superior or inferior to the US one frm any sort of ethical perspective, but it would seem that tipping in many countries (incl. the US) is tied to the notion that folks in the hospitality industry earn low wages and a tip is actually a part of their income and not an “extra”. For the average Australian, tipping a waiter is a bit like tipping a bus driver or a newspaper vendor.

Tipping still isn’t the done thing up here in Queensland. I’m told some people- mainly rich wankers who like to flash their cash around- tip in upmarket restaurants down in Melbourne and Sydney, but it’s still not de rigeur up here. I don’t see that changing anytime soon.

Also, 20-25% of the price of a meal and drinks for two people here could easily add up to another $20 on top of the cost of the meal and drinks- which would almost be enough for another person’s meal.

[Kalhoun]

@TheLoadedDog

What Martini Enfield says is traditionally correct for the Australian experience (though it’s slowly changing). This is not to say our method is either superior or inferior to the US one frm any sort of ethical perspective, but it would seem that tipping in many countries (incl. the US) is tied to the notion that folks in the hospitality industry earn low wages and a tip is actually a part of their income and not an “extra”. For the average Australian, tipping a waiter is a bit like tipping a bus driver or a newspaper vendor.

Oh, don’t get me wrong…I don’t get it and I never will. But until our system changes, we’re kinda stuck with it. There’s no way waitfolk could survive on their hourly wage. And I love to be waited on. I’ll play the game until the game changes.

[silenus]

@Kalhoun

I’ve posted in other threads on how I simply will NOT do the automatic tip thing. I tip according to how good the service is. I don’t care if I’m with a party of ten…if they screw up the orders or take too long, tough shit. I’ll give you what I consider to be a fair tip.

Me, too. I reward excellent service with an excellent tip. If the service is sub-standard, they aren’t getting a penny. So it costs them money. Big deal. Think of it as a lesson learned about how to give at least adequate service to all of your customers.

At a bar, I’ll tip every other drink or so. More if I’m getting special attention. At our regular restaurants, I let the wife handled the tipping. She’s generous to a fault and generally over-tips.

[Glory]

@RSSchen

Okay, I’ve got an issue here. Putting aside the “tip outs” please explain to me why, at a nice restaurant if I order a $60 lobster tail instead of the $20 chicken entree, is the service any more difficult? After tax, I’m paying $65.25 for the lobster. If having the chicken I pay $21.75 including tax. On the lobster I’m expected to plop down an additional $13.05 for the tip (if taxes are included); if having chicken it’s $4.35. Does carrying the lobster instead of the chicken deserve an additional $8 simply because it cost more?

Because my sales are recorded and I am taxed on the total. At the end of every shift, I had to “claim tips” as part of clocking out on the register, I normally claimed 10% of my sales since I typically walked out the door with about 10% (average of 15% in tips based on my sales - tipping out = about 10% left over). The tax was taken out of my paycheck - based on the paltry 2.13 an hour that earned by waitstaff. Not that I ever budgeted much on the lowly 20.00 (bi-weekly) or so I got as an actual check from the restaurant for the hours I worked, but if everyone ordered the lobster and tipped on the chicken, I would have lost that money too.

I don’t know how to explain it better - everything at the restaurant was calculated on total sales cost for the shift. Tipping out, taxes, everything. The more you spend on a meal, the more you need to tip. If you can’t afford to tip on the lobster, order the chicken.

<-- very very glad that I no longer depend on the vagaries of strangers to pay the rent.

[chowder]

RSSchen Hey man if you can afford the lobster surely you can afford the extra tip

[Bippy_the_Beardless]

One of the problems I see in these threads are that it seems many restaurants have completely unfair systems by which the waiter shares out part of their tip with bar staff and bussers. I hope that they don’t blaim so much the poor tipper as the unfair managerial practices should they be out of pocket on a meal for which they received a undersized tip.
There should also be some ruling as to tipping for the amount of work done by the server in relation to the cost of the food. Ordering a fondue may be cheaper than a fillet steak, but the steak requires far less work from the server to get it to you than a fondue wood. And a $100 wine bottle is as easy to serve as a $20 wine bottle so why should the customer tip 5 times as much for the first, it is not the patron who sets up unfair tip redistribution policies within the restaurant. I’d think a $5 tip on $20 wine, or $10 or $100 wine is more appropriate then $4 and $20 respectively.

[Antinor01]

@Martini Enfield

Out of curiosity, why do people feel they should tip the bartender $1 for each drink? It’s not like there’s any real work involved in pulling a beer or pouring a shot of Bourbon into a glass full of ice and/or Coca-Cola.

And yes, I have worked in a bar. I stand behind my assertion that the bartender doesn’t deserve $1 per drink, even for something “complicated” which they may have to look up.

I do that in the bar I go to because I’ve gotten to know the bartender and get better service than most of the people there. Even if I order something different each week, he remembers what I’m drinking that night and has it ready as soon as I walk up to the service area. I also end up having less drinks because he pours mine really, really strong. All in all, the extra service is worth a buck or two per drink.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Yeah, I meant getting my drinks at a bar instead of being served at a table. Thanks to everyone who replied.

I’ve basically been tipping every other drink, or coin change, when I go to my local bar (which is nice but not exactly classy). My friend tips a dollar for every drink he gets, be it a shot of whiskey or a pint of beer. It seemed extravagant to me, but I thought maybe I was the one being cheap. I hate being cheap, but a dollar a drink on a student budget tends to add up.

[DrDeth]

@Martini Enfield

Tipping still isn’t the done thing up here in Queensland. I’m told some people- mainly rich wankers who like to flash their cash around- tip in upmarket restaurants down in Melbourne and Sydney, but it’s still not de rigeur up here. I don’t see that changing anytime soon.

.

Last time, we did this, I had a good half-dozen cites which showed that Martini Enfield was behind the times. Tipping, in the better restaurants “down under” is now common, but is certainly mostly considered a real tip, or bonus for good service. It’s no-where near “nigh mandatory” like here, but much more common than **Martini Enfield ** thinks (or wants to think), according to all the travel experts and official visitor sites for Australia I found. However, in a high class Big city restaurant, with excellent service, **Martini Enfield ** would be considered a cheapskate (or perhaps “reactionary aussie non-tipper” ) if he didn’t chuck 10% or so the way of the server. From what I can tell, for just average service, in an average eatery, sometimes aussies just chuck the change into a jar, like Americans do at some “fast-food” non-chain joints.

**I ** tip 15% rounded up in a good restaurant, 20% for excellent service. (I have also been known the slip the busboy an extra buck.) Not on tax, but on anything the server brings us. In other words, if I got my drinks while waiting in the bar, the bartender gets a tip on them, not the waitress. If there is a sommelier, you tip him, not the waiter, for the wine. Generally, the sommelier doesn’t get 20% or anything close to it, but that depends on the wine.

OK, there is one area where I am clueless about Tipping. Sushi boat places. In a typical cafeteria/buffet place, where you serve yourself, I’ll leave a buck or two for the girl who bring us our sodas, assuming she keeps the re-fills coming. Now, in a “real” sushi-bar, where your sushi is made to order, I tip the sushi-chef, and moderately generously, along with a buck or two for the girl who brings the drinks. But is a sushi-boat place more of a buffet or a restaurant? (At some sushiboat places, there is a jar for the sushi-chefs, and I 'll put something there. )

The IRS generally considers 8% or whatever the CC bills show as taxable for the waitstaff. Waitstaff are supposed to keep a log. :dubious: However, waitstaff are notorious for under-reporting their tips to the IRS. Thus, if you slightly under-tip, but tip in cash, don’t feel too guilty.

OTOH, you do not have the right to “stiff” your server. :mad: If the service is so bad that even 10% seems out of place, then you are obligated to go up (after the meal) and discuss your issues with management, not just “stiff and run”. Note that this can be a very good thing for you- it gives the mgt a chance to explain or better yet, compensate you for your troubles. I have had free desserts and drinks or even my entire meal “comped”. Sometimes, after an explanation, you might even decide to give a full tip, who knows? And, it’ll give MGT and your server a chance to know what was wrong, and correct it in the future.

As for a bad food experience- yes, you can cut back the Tip for this- IF you have complained to your server and she didn’t do anything to make it right, or if the problem is obviously the servers fault. But if the steak is overcooked, and you didn’t complain about it, no fair cutting your tip.

[Carlyjay]

@Bippy the Beardless

One of the problems I see in these threads are that it seems many restaurants have completely unfair systems by which the waiter shares out part of their tip with bar staff and bussers. I hope that they don’t blaim so much the poor tipper as the unfair managerial practices should they be out of pocket on a meal for which they received a undersized tip.

You’re absolutely right that it isn’t a fair system. And in a perfect world, we could change it. Or we could have servers unionize so they aren’t as dependent on tips for fair pay.

Unfortunately, this isn’t a perfect world. Servers are underpaid with the expectation of tips. Servers are then taxed on the expected tips based on sales. If you don’t claim enough in tips, you get audited. Sucks to be a server.

Thing is (in North America, anyway) that it’s a huge industry with a VERY high turnover. There are perks to the job (like flexibility) but often the server is the one who gets the bum deal because the tipping custom, and the tip-OUT custom, has been firmly in place for awhile, and isn’t likely to change soon.

Sometimes you can get a job with amazing tips. When I worked in one particular sports bar, I made a KILLING in tips. The downside was, I was groped constantly and treated like a plaything, which wasn’t my style, so I quit. If you want to make a career out of serving, you can take service courses and sommelier courses and get a pretty sweet job in a high-end restaurant where tips are good and high.

But for your average server in the average sit-down restaurant, you get a lot of bum deals. And trust me, most servers would love the system to change, but it isn’t changing. As such, we hope (and expect) that our customers will abide by the customs and tip appropriately.

You can lay the blame wherever you like, but the situation is what it is, and the custom is what it is because of that, and nothing is changing. So if you’re a customer who doesn’t like to tip because the system OUGHT NOT to be this way, you’re just passing the buck. Tip on reality, not on what you wish the industry was like.

[Carlyjay]

@HazelNutCoffee

I’ve basically been tipping every other drink, or coin change, when I go to my local bar (which is nice but not exactly classy). My friend tips a dollar for every drink he gets, be it a shot of whiskey or a pint of beer. It seemed extravagant to me, but I thought maybe I was the one being cheap. I hate being cheap, but a dollar a drink on a student budget tends to add up.

In general, when I was bartending, I got a dollar a drink on cash-and-carry orders (order a drink and pay right away.) If, however, someone gave me 50 cents on a $4 beer, I wouldn’t be too upset about it. As long as it covered my tip-out (roughly 10% on alcohol) I was content. However, if people ran a tab with me and gave me a dollar on $40 worth of beer, I’d be pretty angry.

Similarily, if I had a barful of people, and most were tipping well, it always annoyed me when the cheapo non-tipper or 10 cent tipper would offer to buy a round. Thanks, that’s $50 I could have made at least $5-10 bucks from, and I got 75 cents from you. Jerk.

I couldn’t complain out loud, but it still annoyed me.

[kanicbird]

@Glory

I don’t know how to explain it better - everything at the restaurant was calculated on total sales cost for the shift. Tipping out, taxes, everything. The more you spend on a meal, the more you need to tip. If you can’t afford to tip on the lobster, order the chicken.

OK what we need to know is what percentage you need to break even. This way we can pay your tax if we want to, then start tipping from there.

Why is tipping not charitable contrubutions?

[Bippy_the_Beardless]

@Carlyjay

Thing is (in North America, anyway) that it’s a huge industry with a VERY high turnover. There are perks to the job (like flexibility) but often the server is the one who gets the bum deal because the tipping custom, and the tip-OUT custom, has been firmly in place for awhile, and isn’t likely to change soon.

I totally agree, I do wonder though how it can even be legal to have an employee required to pay another employee ever out of their own pocket. I don’t know of any of buisness where that would be considered reasonable. Certainly sharing a tip is fine, but when a tip isn’t received it seems completely unreasonable to have to pay from your own pocket.

Surely there is some bright young lawyer out there who worked tables as a holliday job once and is willing to fight the good fight so to speak.