# What is barbeque (barbecue(BBQ))? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 3, 2006, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-barbeque-barbecue-bbq/355174 "2006-05-03T00:22:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-barbeque-barbecue-bbq/355174/61 "2006-05-03T21:26:11Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > To a Northerner too. That’s grilling, steak sauce optional. We don’t make a distinction here. Well, restaurants might, but when people do it themselves, they are one and the same and done on the same equipment - a barbecue. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-barbeque-barbecue-bbq/355174/62 "2006-05-03T21:49:54Z")
Pardon me… excuse me… comin through here… got find some territory to stake out in the fight here. 🙂 > [@](#): > > As my link demonstrated, it’s 250-350ºF (about 121-177ºC). But 250-350? wow, dude that pretty high for barbecue, 350º is for baking a cake or something. 230º is how I learned to Barbie, 300º+ for 6+ hours and it’s gonna be dry dry dry. ---
**Author:** ![Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-barbeque-barbecue-bbq/355174/63 "2006-05-03T22:03:15Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > I’ll add that, in my neck of the woods (Scottsboro to Decatur, AL,) there is another variant of sauce that is mostly used for chicken, but is also superb on pork…[Alabama white barbecue sauce](http://bbq.about.com/od/barbecuesaucerecipes/r/ble00114.htm). As far as I know, this sauce is unique to this particular hundred-or-so mile swath of Alabama. Hi neighbor. Mmm, Big Bob Gibson’s white sauce… ---
**Author:** ![Godfrey\_Daniels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Godfrey\_Daniels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Godfrey_Daniels)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-barbeque-barbecue-bbq/355174/64 "2006-05-03T22:32:38Z")
> [@Operation Ripper](#): > > 100% correct fellow. Well, times change, I guess. I can only base my _opinion_ on what I know to be true when I lived there. (for twenty years) Loeb’s, Coleman’s, Leonard’s, Top’s, Three Pigs, etc. all sold probably a hundred times more sandwiches than ribs. Maybe in recent times, dry-rub ribs have come to the fore, but anyone who thinks that the likes of Corky’s represents true Memphis barbecue, well, I just don’t know what to say. I have a very difficult time believing that dry-rub ribs are the only thing unique about Memphis barbecue. Have a great time at Memphis in May. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-barbeque-barbecue-bbq/355174/65 "2006-05-03T22:38:47Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Native in the know don’t give Maurice a penny of our money, you know. He’s a very bad man. If you knew and didn’t care, okay, but if you didn’t know, you might want to. Care to elaborate? I read his website, including the political beliefs, and I predicted that someone here would bring that up. Is the only issue here that he is right-wing, or is there something that is truly “very bad” about him? ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-barbeque-barbecue-bbq/355174/66 "2006-05-04T00:32:18Z")
> [@Argent Towers](#): > > Care to elaborate? > > I read his website, including the political beliefs, and I predicted that someone here would bring that up. Is the only issue here that he is right-wing, or is there something that is truly “very bad” about him? I think he’s what you call “right of right-wing.” Seems like a Confederate apologist to me. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-barbeque-barbecue-bbq/355174/67 "2006-05-04T00:55:50Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Native in the know don’t give Maurice a penny of our money, you know. He’s a very bad man. If you knew and didn’t care, okay, but if you didn’t know, you might want to. Personally, I don’t let politics interfere with my taste buds. He can have whatever beliefs he wants and as long as he doesn’t try to cram those down my throat along with his sauce - I’m good YMMV. I lived in that area back n the 70’s when I started using his sauce and have kept a supply via phone and now internet orders since then. I have tried to duplicate by mixing my own, and I’ve come close but never quite the same. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-barbeque-barbecue-bbq/355174/68 "2006-05-04T01:41:21Z")
Well, he’s just a huge embarassment to the state, and you won’t find the Better Sort of People going into the restaurant. Lots of pamphlets on how black people are so lucky in that slavery deal, that sort of thing. Not just your average right winger - he’s really pretty rabid. I’ve heard that he was way, way worse back in the 60’s, though. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-barbeque-barbecue-bbq/355174/69 "2006-05-04T01:43:40Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Pardon me… excuse me… comin through here… got find some territory to stake out in the fight here. 🙂 > > But 250-350? wow, dude that pretty high for barbecue, 350º is for baking a cake or something. > > 230º is how I learned to Barbie, 300º+ for 6+ hours and it’s gonna be dry dry dry. I generally try to keep it in the 250F range, but I’ve had smokers go to about 300F and the pulled pork wasn’t the least bit dry (whole pork butt smoked for 10 hours.) It’s very forgiving meat. 350 does seem very high for 'cue, though. I wouldn’t push much more than 300, and that is pushing it. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-barbeque-barbecue-bbq/355174/70 "2006-05-04T02:53:32Z")
> [@Godfrey Daniels](#): > > I also grew up in the Memphis area, and I can sort of see **Adhermar’s** point. The epitome of Memphis barbecue has always been the pulled pork sandwich, and Memphis barbecue sauce really is rather distinct in flavor. Try Top’s or Leonard’s (although Leonard’s isn’t what it used to be) to get the idea. It’s really rather difficult to duplicate (I’ve been trying for years) and I’ve yet to find sauce like it outside the Memphis area. Now, ribs have always been part of the Memphis barbecue scene as well, but nowhere approaching the prevalence and popularity of the good ol’ pulled pork sandwich. > To address the OP, barbecue is meat, of any kind (preferably pork for me) slow cooked over intensely smoky coals, so that the smoke permeates the meat to add flavor. See, that’s a lot clearer. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Nightsong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nightsong/32/3083_2.png) [@Nightsong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightsong)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-barbeque-barbecue-bbq/355174/71 "2006-05-04T03:03:26Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > [Maurice’s](http://www.mauricesbbq.com/catalog/catalog.asp) is the only one I’ve used over the years. Tried his, and found that it made the barbecue taste of mustard with a hint o’ dead animal flesh, instead of making the meat taste come to the forefront. And count me as someone who didn’t like all of the ‘propaganda’ (for lack of a better word) scattered about in his restaurants. Made me think I was in some kind of odd time warp. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-barbeque-barbecue-bbq/355174/72 "2006-05-04T03:59:09Z")
> [@Nightsong](#): > > And count me as someone who didn’t like all of the ‘propaganda’ (for lack of a better word) scattered about in his restaurants. Made me think I was in some kind of odd time warp. I wouldn’t feel comfortable with that as well. IMHO that’s crossing that line of cramming his views down my throat. I’ve never been to his establishment. Only purchased his sauce from the grocery store shelf or by ordering direct after moving out of SC. I love mustard, but I don’t find it overbearing. My favorite item to use it on is pork country style ribs which I cook more over low direct heat than by smoking over indirect heat. ---
**Author:** ![Operation\_Ripper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/34f0e0/32.png) [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-barbeque-barbecue-bbq/355174/73 "2006-05-04T23:44:28Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Native in the know don’t give Maurice a penny of our money, you know. He’s a very bad man. If you knew and didn’t care, okay, but if you didn’t know, you might want to. Is this a poem or something? ---
**Author:** ![Operation\_Ripper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/34f0e0/32.png) [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-barbeque-barbecue-bbq/355174/74 "2006-05-04T23:50:46Z")
Used to be a Bubba’s in south Jackson, MS that served bbq **beef** ribs with mustard sauce, _freakin’ great combo_. Last time I was down there about a year or so ago was closed, alas. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-barbeque-barbecue-bbq/355174/75 "2006-05-04T23:58:37Z")
> [@Operation Ripper](#): > > Used to be a Bubba’s in south Jackson, MS that served bbq **beef** ribs with mustard sauce, _freakin’ great combo_. Last time I was down there about a year or so ago was closed, alas. I have never heard of such a thing. Pork, yes, although I consider it heresy, but never beef. And it was good, you say? I must experiment with this sometime when I have the smoker going. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-barbeque-barbecue-bbq/355174/76 "2006-05-04T23:59:36Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Pardon me… excuse me… comin through here… got find some territory to stake out in the fight here. 🙂 > > But 250-350? wow, dude that pretty high for barbecue, 350º is for baking a cake or something. > > 230º is how I learned to Barbie, 300º+ for 6+ hours and it’s gonna be dry dry dry. Sorry, I missed this before. I think 230º is too cool for proper barbecue. It seems like you’d be smoking your meat (heh) at that temp. As I said, I like 285º. I agree that over 300 is too hot, but there are guys who like it there. It’s the sort of thing that gets a full debate over on The Smoke Ring board, but I have a feeling neither of us should get too chesty about it there. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Swan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_Swan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Swan)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-barbeque-barbecue-bbq/355174/77 "2006-05-05T06:30:24Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Since Veb killed our discussion in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=369869) thread, I thought I’d continue the [del]riot[/del] discussion here. > > Exactly what **is** barbeque, to you? Sauce or no sauce? Pork or beef? Goat? Tomatoes in the sauce? Vinegar? Coffee? Where is the best place to get your style of BBQ? Are all the others heretics? Do Texans know jack about it? How do you deal with the South Carolina Heresy? Inquiring minds want to know. I am from North Carolina - the part just between the East and the West (barbeque speaking). A few things I have picked up over the years, none of which is even open to debate: 1. Barbeque isn’t “barbequed”. It is smoked. Always. No exception. 2. There are 4 major types : Pulled pork (shoulder, or whole hog). The controversy arises when sauce is added to the discussion. The most traditional (again, not open to discussion) is a vinegar & pepper based sauce. The “traditional” aspect stems from the historical belief that tomatos were poisonous. Types 2 is dry or wet pork (sometimes beef) ribs. These are smoked at about the same temperature that any other kind of barbeque is. Type 3 is Brisket (sliced), which is dry rubbed and divine. Way different from the pork variety, but just as valid. Type 4 is chicken. Slow smoked, and served with a sauce. Type 5 or 6 may incluse sausage or tri-tip, or even goat, but these are for another discussion. 3. Sauces: Tomato (or catsup) based, vinegar based, a blend of the two, or mustard-based. Sometimes the mayo-based folks in Bama will bring this variety up. I’ll give in to this, as it is mainly vinegar. Some misconceptions brought up in this thread: 1. Barbeque is not cooked in a damn sauce. It is dry-rubbed (sometimes), but sauce is always added to the finished product. It may be basted on ribs toward the very end of the cooking process, but that is as far as it goes. 2. Mempis, Tennessee, Arkansas, Kentucky, etc. all derived their pulled pork method from the Carolinas (probably North). The afore mentioned places do not have the definitive version, dammit. A quick tutorial on the the most famous places to obtain the above types of barbecue: Texas - Beef Brisket, and beef ribs. They do other types quite well, but this is their shining spot. Memphis & St. Louis - Pork ribs. Dry or wet rubbed, respectively North Carolina (West or East) - Pulled pork. End of story. You may think you’ve had better pork elsewhere, but this is where it came from. This is the most famous state for said barbeque. No one in the know will dispute this.) Phenominal pulled pork can be had all over the Southest. Now, we all have our favorite joints (no argument there), but in the culinary world, the above geographical generalizations ring true. “Barbecueing” is not a method of cooking. Smoking is. A “Barbeque” is not something you cook on. A smoker is (unless you’re an ignorant yankee, who would say a grill is). Barbeque is what you eat. Period. Barbeque is cooked very slowly over wood smoke. Pork is better than beef, unless you think beef is better than pork. Both opinions are flat wrong. Any questions??? Now I need to go fire up the Egg. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Swan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_Swan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Swan)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-barbeque-barbecue-bbq/355174/78 "2006-05-05T06:39:23Z")
A couple things I forgot to mention in my above post: 1. My diatribe applies to United States barbeque. Those of you from other nations should feel free to offer opinions on your own local barbeque. It will not appy to my post. 2. I said that barbeque must be cooked on, or in, a smoker. It can also be cooked on, or in, a pit. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-barbeque-barbecue-bbq/355174/79 "2006-05-05T11:10:00Z")
Gotta support **The Swan** , seein’ as how I lived in Durham NC for 5 years. And that means that I think Eastern Carolina is the best. Pulled pork. No ketchup in the sauce. I thought he/she and others might appreciate a great BBQ link, [The Lexington Collection](http://www.ibiblio.org/lineback/bbq/jnts.htm), a listing of all the BBQ joints in NC. And just a handful out of state. There’s also some links to sauces, philosophy, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-barbeque-barbecue-bbq/355174/80 "2006-05-05T13:13:31Z")
> [@kushiel](#): > > Barbecue is something cooked on a barbecue. > > But in the sense most Americans think of, barbecue is steak with barbecue sauce (A4 steak sauce, for example). My Mind left the road at high speed when I read this. A steak is a steak. Barbecue is barbecue. They are not, have never been, will never be, the same thing. With a dad from coastal NC, I was raised to KNOW that barbecue is pulled pork with vinegar/pepper sauce (No tomatoes, honey, sweeteners, “Smoke flavoring” or other debased dilutants). I have since learned that barbecue can be sliced as well as pulled. But even this liberal, forgiving definition can only be stretched so far. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-barbeque-barbecue-bbq/355174.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-barbeque-barbecue-bbq/355174.md?page=5)