# What is behind the recent rise of the liberal media **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 22, 2010, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-behind-the-recent-rise-of-the-liberal-media/544079 "2010-06-22T01:42:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-behind-the-recent-rise-of-the-liberal-media/544079/21 "2010-06-22T03:55:53Z")
> [@Ruminator](#): > > And people that view the artifacts of pop culture as completely value neutral are misinformed. Is a blatant strawman. I never said the show was “completely value neutral” (indeed, I said the exact opposite, its trying to display the value of “working together”). I said seeing it as a political allegory was silly, since working togeather isn’t a value that is specific to a political ideology. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-behind-the-recent-rise-of-the-liberal-media/544079/22 "2010-06-22T04:00:42Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > As to the OP, I don’t really think there’s been a huge upswing in the amount of media outlets catering to liberals. There were some before and there are some now. But what new ones there are (the Daily Show, MSNBC, etc) probably owe the anger with the Bush Administration for much of their success. Just as Limbaugh and FOX owe a great deal to the Clinton Admin. News has become more partisan because of several factors. More cable stations mean less viewer-ship, so you go after a particular demographic/viewpoint rather than trying to capture the whole market. Changes in the law no longer require TV stations to have programming to the public good, so they turned news into a profit center. The idea of “noblesse oblige” has disappeared as media outlets are no longer privately held. Murdoch imported tabloid-style journalism from England to ruin everything. Media companies are now allowed to own multiple outlets in the same market, whereas before it was prohibited. MSNBC is a reaction to Fox and Air America is a reaction to Rush and his ilk. The culture wars divided the country and red-staters became disillusioned of media filled with people that were not like them (e.g., people in the media supported outrageous stuff like equal rights for women and gays, and thought it was OK to provide abortions for women that were raped). ETA: in the end it’s not that a bunch of news outlets catered to liberals, it’s that when new media outlets appealed to conservatives, eventually the remaining companies decided that it made sense to appeal to the remaining viewers. Air America is an exception, because it was specifically stated to counter the hate-filled talk radio programs. ---
**Author:** ![Ruminator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Ruminator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruminator)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-behind-the-recent-rise-of-the-liberal-media/544079/23 "2010-06-22T04:03:31Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I never said the show was “completely value neutral” (indeed, I said the exact opposite, its trying to display the value of “working together”). I said seeing it as a political allegory was silly, since working togeather isn’t a value that is specific to a political ideology. The “value neutral” I was referring to was about political ideology. I wasn’t referring to all the ohter infinite values implied such as “working together”, or the amount of cleavage shown on Ginger (too modest?), or the lack of tongue on tongue kissing and groping, etc. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-behind-the-recent-rise-of-the-liberal-media/544079/24 "2010-06-22T04:08:26Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > It’s not that people are ducking the label. It’s the fact that if the mainstream media mean to be liberal then they’re doing a bloody poor job of it. If they wanted to be like like Fox, but on the left, they would just be making shit up like Fox does. I think that there are still people with integrity employed in the traditional media that will only sink so far. MSNBC didn’t create astroturf rallies to challenge McCain’s citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-behind-the-recent-rise-of-the-liberal-media/544079/25 "2010-06-22T04:10:01Z")
At least it’s nice to see someone admit that working together is not a conservative principle ---
**Author:** ![Ruminator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Ruminator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruminator)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-behind-the-recent-rise-of-the-liberal-media/544079/26 "2010-06-22T04:10:26Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > It’s the fact that if the mainstream media mean to be liberal then they’re doing a bloody poor job of it. I think the opposite. The liberal slant on mainstream media is outstanding and the conservatives have no talent on their side that is equal to Jon Stewart, etc. Rush Limbaugh is fat, makes stupid statements and is constant subject of mockery. How could mainstream media do a “better job” for liberal viewpoints? ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-behind-the-recent-rise-of-the-liberal-media/544079/27 "2010-06-22T04:18:23Z")
MSNBC is the more left-leaning of the news networks, but don’t forget that their morning show is three hours with a right-wing former Republican Congressman. It’s easy to forget just how unwelcome progressive voices were in the mainstream from 2001 until 2005. They were already few and far between, but when Bush and the right claimed patriotism for themselves and equated disagreement with them to support for terrorism, what little was out there disappeared. The blogosphere was building steam, but the traditional media only acknowledged it when it supported the point they were making anyway. The typical “debate” show lineup was a firebreathing conservative/Bush apologist on the right vs. a mainstream non-opinion journalist, or at best a milquetoast like Alan Colmes, “on the left”. I said the same thing in the Michael Moore thread–this is why we flocked to his movies. There are plenty of pundits out there now offering full-throated criticism of the right-wingers, but back then Moore was about it. It all changed in 2005, thanks to two things: 1.) Cindy Sheehan, who has since proven herself pretty well nuts but made it OK to stand up and oppose the war in Iraq, and 2.) the administration’s response to Katrina, which was an undeniable display of incompetence. Voices of the left suddenly started to creep back into mainstream punditry. So from that standpoint, the “liberal media” (by your definition) couldn’t help but rise. The lefty blogosphere continued to build up, and that helped build an audience for Olbermann and eventually for his far superior (IMO) spinoffs Maddow and Schultz. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-behind-the-recent-rise-of-the-liberal-media/544079/28 "2010-06-22T04:19:04Z")
> [@](#): > > I think the opposite. The liberal slant on mainstream media is outstanding and the conservatives have no talent on their side that is equal to Jon Stewart, etc. Rush Limbaugh is fat, makes stupid statements and is constant subject of mockery. On the other hand, you have to admit that Limbaugh is extremely talented at getting large numbers of people to listen to him. No, I don’t know how he does it, but whatever he’s doing, it’s clearly working. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-behind-the-recent-rise-of-the-liberal-media/544079/29 "2010-06-22T04:19:40Z")
My secret plan to turn this into a thread about Gilligan’s island has worked. Dance puppets dance. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-behind-the-recent-rise-of-the-liberal-media/544079/30 "2010-06-22T04:43:26Z")
The right wing slant during the bush years was caused by bush’s policies of so-called “freedom speech,” where he would kill stories critical of the war or his government by blackmailing the media with cutting off access to military sources. But, really, “liberal” media? If the media criticizes repubs, it’s liberal? What if the repugs are wrong? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-behind-the-recent-rise-of-the-liberal-media/544079/31 "2010-06-22T10:23:25Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > My secret plan to turn this into a thread about Gilligan’s island has worked. Dance puppets dance. [The truth about Gilligan’s Island.](http://www.sff.net/people/adam-troy/random/theories.htm) The media is not that liberal. Read Dan Rather’s lawsuit. CBS’ owner at the time, Viacom, did not want to air any news stories that would endanger Bush’s chances at stealing a second election. MSNBC is not FOX. Sure, Maddow and Schultz and Matthews and Olbermann skew left, but unlike FOX, they have research staff, editors, and journalistic standards. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-behind-the-recent-rise-of-the-liberal-media/544079/32 "2010-06-22T16:10:01Z")
> [@kingbighair](#): > > Come on. I am as liberal as they come, but the examples the OP gave (aside from PBS) are clearly liberal news outlets. When PBS runs a story, it has a liberal and a conservative on at the same time. They are of equal weight. If you actually watched PBS ,you would see that. We are so used to having the right and corporate side presented by itself , that it appears liberal when you see it. We need to go back to the days when every story had to present the opposite view. Democracy Now has a slight liberal slant. The Daly show skewered Obama badly last week. When does Fox ever step on a conservative? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-behind-the-recent-rise-of-the-liberal-media/544079/33 "2010-06-22T16:17:10Z")
> [@Ruminator](#): > > No of course not. People helping each other is a **universal** idea. I agree. > > It’s the concocted **premise** of the show (force the proletariat and the bourgeoisie into the same space) so that it creates a vehicle for helping each other is the component idea that’s liberal. That premise was not exactly new - see, for instance, “The Admirable Creighton.” I’d say that the society was a libertarian one if anything. Unless, that is, you think the rich oppressing the poor as a conservative ideal. Remember also that at the time a lot of Hollywood was still reacting to the blacklist, and any liberal scent you think you find would be a result of trying to say things impossible to say a few years earlier. Gilligan’s Island is a bad example - if you want a good one, try “Have Gun will Travel.” In one episode Paladin, the hero, protected a school teacher who was trying to teach the truth about a Civil War battle which some townspeople, former Confederates, didn’t want taught. It was a parable of McCarthyism back then, but today it would fit in perfectly with what is happening with the Texas School Board. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-behind-the-recent-rise-of-the-liberal-media/544079/34 "2010-06-22T16:59:00Z")
In answer to the OP: The liberal media are rising because the stars are right. It was foretold in the _Economicon_ of the Mad Briton al-Keenaz. ---
**Author:** ![InterestedObserver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@InterestedObserver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InterestedObserver)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-behind-the-recent-rise-of-the-liberal-media/544079/35 "2010-06-22T17:27:39Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > By liberal media, I mean the real liberal media (PBS, MSNBC, air america, KOS, etc). I don’t mean ‘everything except fox news and talk radio’ (aka all non-conservative media outlets) which most people mean when they use the term. > > In the last 10 years it seems liberals have gone from having pretty much no media outlets to having a very strong, interconnected network of them. > > Several popular blogs have come up including DU and KOS > > MSNBC has moved to the left, they have a 3 hour block of TV in primetime (Olbermann, Maddow, Ed Schultz) promoting liberal views > > PBS has (has one fewer now that moyers is gone) several liberal perspective shows > > Air america tried to develop national progressive radio starting in 2004, but failed. > > Various writers have come out in the last 10 years promoting liberal POVs and selling bestselling books as well as popular newspaper columns and websites (Thomas Frank, Paul Krugman, David Brock, the NYT opinion page) > > Comedy central has a couple of liberal shows. That may not sound important, but using ridicule is extremely effective at undercutting your opposition. > > There are probably many more examples. > > Because liberal media outlets promote viewpoints that are anathema to the economic interests of wealthy individuals and wealthy corporations, they should have trouble getting funding. This has always been my understanding of why the media leans conservative. Wealthy individuals and corporations are not going to fund and buy airtime in networks that promote estate taxes, corporate taxes, corporate regulation, progressive income taxes, etc and that encourage people to vote for politicians who support those agendas. > > But lately it seems liberal media has gotten funding. Where have they gotten funding from? Groups like the democracy alliance have formed knowing they are voting against their economic interests (they are a group of millionaire & billionaire liberals trying to create grassroots liberal political machines). But they came late in the game. Is the whole thing really funded by a small group of wealthy liberals (the clintons, Soros, the democracy alliance, etc)? Or is it that corporations want to invest because they want to advertise to a certain audience who can be reached through liberal media outlets (younger people, as an example). > > Was the whole thing an opposition to Bush, his policies and a response to the closeness of the 2000/2004 election? Because roughly HALF the US population IS “liberal” (or more liberal than media outlets like Fox, Rush, et al, which isn’t saying a lot ;)) Yes, a huge market to sell to, and businessmen/women, right-wing personally or not, will make money where they can. But I challenge the current definition of “liberal”…the political climate in the US lately (meaning the last few decades, say) has moved SO far to the right that anyone left of say, Hitler, is cast as a “socialist”, “extreme leftist”. Point in case: Obama, a moderate pragmatist along the lines of Clinton, imo, and actually not close to being “liberal” enough for me or many I know who consider themselves “liberal/left”. And some of the programs and outlets you mention are not, imo, esp. “leftist”…more “centrist”. I recently did a research project/presentation for a college class on bias in the media, and after looking at as many studies and surveys (and taking into account the sources and methodology) concluded that if anything, there is a “moderate to conservative” bias overall. Note that by “media”, I mean mainly NEWS media outlets, not popular entertainment. Try as I could (and I DID) I was unable to find any reliable data supporting the idea of some vast liberal bias in the mainstream media. At most, I found some surveys of the general public (with questionable methodology) conducted by organizations with a strong right-wing bias, which found, surprise! a PERCEPTION of such a bias among the gen. public. :dubious: Some telling findings: "…Studies like the one which analyzed the media citations of the top 25 think tanks in 2008 and found that “…conservative or right-leaning think tanks” garnered 31% of quotes, “progressive or left-leaning think tanks” 21% and “Centrist think tanks” were quoted as sources in the “corporate media” the most, with 48% of citations. (FAIR). "… …"a large 1998 survey of journalists’ views on social and economic issues, which found that the vast majority self-identified as “centrists”, not “leftists” when it came to social issues (57% “center“, 30% “left). The gap was even more pronounced when it came to economic issues, with only 11% choosing “left” and 64% describing themselves as “center.” … (this one went on to break down the positions of the respondents by particular issue..taxes, SS, welfare, role of government in general, etc..and found that most journalists were further to the right on these issues than the general population…I suspect the the income level of the respondents had something to do with this, as it was much higher than that of the general population) …"(The Pew Center) conducted ( in Al Franken’s words) a “comprehensive study examining 1, 149 stories from 17 leading news sources” to determine if the media coverage of the 2000 presidential election was liberally biased. The results reveal that positive coverage of Bush was almost twice as prevalent as it was for Gore (24% vs. 13%), negative coverage of Gore exceeded that of Bush (56% vs. 49%) and neutral coverage of both candidates was similar (31% of Gore vs. 27% of Bush). (Franken, Al, pg. 38-9.)… ``` Another Pew survey from 2004 of journalists’ attitudes and concerns found that: “…More journalists said they think it is more important for people to be free to pursue their goals without government interference than it is for government to ensure that no one is in need….” and questioned whether they mean the same thing by the term “liberal”, when they identify themselves as such, as critics or the general public, noting their actual views tend to be more “libertarian” than anything. “On select issues from corporate power and trade to Social Security and Medicare to health care and taxes, journalists are actually more conservative than the general public. ``` Journalists are mostly centrist in their political orientation. The minority of journalists who do not identify with the “center” are more likely to identify with the “right” when it comes to economic issues and to identify with the “left” when it comes to social issues.” (Pew Research Center)." ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-behind-the-recent-rise-of-the-liberal-media/544079/36 "2010-06-22T17:50:17Z")
> [@Ruminator](#): > > Setting aside **Der Trihs** impossibly hardcore version of “liberal”, the majority of shows on TV and movies in theaters are liberal. Here’s a blurb about Sherwood Schwartz, the creator of both Gilligan’s Island and Brady Bunch. > > \*[Creator Sherwood Schwartz said](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057751/trivia) that he dreamed up the idea of the show because he wanted the castaways to represent a microcosm of society and he wanted to show how they worked together to help each other when in trouble. > \* > He _“wanted to show how they worked together to help each other when in trouble”_ … yeah sure, that’s your typical right wing mantra, isn’t it? (Nope.) It’s not just that one quote. Research his bio. He’s a left wing guy. So are most folks in Hollywood. This is without doubt the most bizarre interpretation of anything I’ve heard, at least since the time my high school Advanced Reading teacher claimed that the theme of _Jurassic Park_ was that adults warm up to kids once they get used to them. [QUOTE=BobLibDem] MSNBC is not FOX. Sure, Maddow and Schultz and Matthews and Olbermann skew left, but unlike FOX, they have research staff, editors, and journalistic standards. [/QUOTE] “Misidentifying prominent Republicans as Democrats when they do something stupid” is a journalistic standard, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Ruminator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Ruminator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruminator)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-behind-the-recent-rise-of-the-liberal-media/544079/37 "2010-06-22T18:12:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > This is without doubt the most bizarre interpretation of anything I’ve heard, I don’t know what your high school teacher was smoking but as far as Gilligan’s Island is concerned, Sherwood Schwartz said he believed TV had a responsibility to show what society should look like. [It’s all in his book.](http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Gilligans-Island-Three-Hour-Television/dp/0312104820/) ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-behind-the-recent-rise-of-the-liberal-media/544079/38 "2010-06-22T18:25:33Z")
> [@Ruminator](#): > > I don’t know what your high school teacher was smoking but as far as Gilligan’s Island is concerned, Sherwood Schwartz said he believed TV had a responsibility to show what society should look like. [It’s all in his book.](http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Gilligans-Island-Three-Hour-Television/dp/0312104820/) Isn’t that what conservatives want? They want TV shows to display good values rather than just reflect how the world is? Do you think that people in real life don’t swear, or smoke, or fuck? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-behind-the-recent-rise-of-the-liberal-media/544079/39 "2010-06-22T20:06:36Z")
Dup ---
**Author:** ![kingbighair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/13edae/32.png) [@kingbighair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingbighair)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-behind-the-recent-rise-of-the-liberal-media/544079/40 "2010-06-22T20:12:36Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > When PBS runs a story, it has a liberal and a conservative on at the same time. They are of equal weight. If you actually watched PBS ,you would see that. We are so used to having the right and corporate side presented by itself , that it appears liberal when you see it. > We need to go back to the days when every story had to present the opposite view. > Democracy Now has a slight liberal slant. The Daly show skewered Obama badly last week. When does Fox ever step on a conservative? I think you misread my post. I said PBS is not liberal. I watch it often and prefer it over all other sources. Is that a call for the fairness doctrine? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-behind-the-recent-rise-of-the-liberal-media/544079.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-behind-the-recent-rise-of-the-liberal-media/544079.md?page=3)