# What is "cosmetic gynecology"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 28, 2005, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-cosmetic-gynecology/301573 "2005-04-28T17:17:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-cosmetic-gynecology/301573/41 "2005-04-30T10:51:28Z")
> [@nevermore](#): > > as to the actual topic, I don’t see anything too terribly wrong with such surgery, if it’s not in response to pressure from others. I’m one of the weird ones that has just always disliked the way my arrangement looks, before I ever even saw or had any concept of anyone else’s, or anyone saw mine, so I’ve actually considered this. I’ll probably never be able to justify the expense, so I doubt it will happen, but it would make me a thousand times more comfortable with my body as a whole, so it’s hard for me to see it as a bad thing if there are others for whom this might be the case. Oh and dicks ain’t pretty but I’m sure their owners never feel the urge to change them (NOBODY reads the “enlarge my dick” emails surely???) ---
**Author:** ![nevermore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a587f6/32.png) [@nevermore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevermore)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-cosmetic-gynecology/301573/42 "2005-04-30T11:31:42Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > I can’t see how Western girls are more active then Eastern ones. Surely they are more likely to be sitting on their arses? well, I meant in terms of sports & stuff like that. _shrugs_ shot in the dark on my part, really; I just figured that overly sexist societies would frown on little girls running around doing tomboyish things a lot more so than over here. > [@](#): > > I think Hymens/first sexual expriences are just talked about more in the West and traditions are looked to more in the East. probably right. > [@calm kiwi](#): > > Oh and dicks ain’t pretty but I’m sure their owners never feel the urge to change them …I’m sure no man has ever thought there was something about his penis he’d like to change. ever. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-cosmetic-gynecology/301573/43 "2005-04-30T11:57:30Z")
> [@nevermore](#): > > well, I meant in terms of sports & stuff like that. _shrugs_ shot in the dark on my part, really; I just figured that overly sexist societies would frown on little girls running around doing tomboyish things a lot more so than over here. I knew what you meant. I just thought that things like getting water and firewood may involve more bending, lifting etc then sport would. It was just a guess. > [@](#): > > …I’m sure no man has ever thought there was something about his penis he’d like to change. ever. :rolleyes: I’m sure many men would like to change something about their dicks…do they do it though? Most men seem to feel the dick is too special for surgical alteration 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-cosmetic-gynecology/301573/44 "2005-04-30T12:39:44Z")
Speaking of Eastern traditions, I like the menarche ceremony in _The Red Tent_ by Anita Diamant. > [@Anita Diamant](#): > > The soil had been tilled in preparation for planting after the moon’s return, and I was naked, lying facedown on the cool soil. I shivered. My mother put my cheek to the ground and loosened my hair around me. She arranged my arms wide, “to embrace the earth,” she whispered. She bent my knees and pulled the soles of my feet together until they touched, “to give the first blood back to the land,” said Leah. I could feel the night air on my sex, and it was strange and wonderful to be so open under the sky. > > My mothers gathered around: Leah above me, Bilhah at my left hand, Zilpah’s hand on the back of my legs. I was grinning like the frog, half asleep, in love with them all. Rachel’s voice behind me broke the silence. “Mother! Inanna! Queen of the Night! Accept the blood offering of your daughter, in her mother’s name, in your name. In her blood may she live, in her blood may she give life.” > > It did not hurt. The oil eased the entry, and the narrow triangle fit perfectly as it entered me. I faced the west while the little goddess faced east as she broke the lock on my womb. When I cried out, it was not so much pain but surprise and perhaps even pleasure, for it seemed to me that the Queen herself was lying on top of me, with Dumuzi her consort beneath me. I was like a slip of cloth, caught between their lovemaking, warmed by the great passion. That’s a better idea. Let _women_ deflower the girl _gently_, and leave men and their silly patriarchal values out of it. Then when she does get married, she won’t get pain of defloration from the first time they have sex. For this rational, humane system the Israelites substituted their Biblical values that increase pain, humiliation, and chattel subjugation for the women… and domination for the men. No thanks! ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-cosmetic-gynecology/301573/45 "2005-04-30T12:44:26Z")
About hymens without any holes (imperforate hymens) it’s not that rare, is usually diagnosd when someone complains of not having started their period, and is easily fixed by a gynaecologist and a scalpel. The resulting gush of months worth of backed up blood prompted a gynaecologist to comment “not the day to have chocolate sauce on your icecream” after explaining the procedure in a lecture. Some women (ones with severe perineal tears or long, difficult labours) might actually have some fistulae or prolapse that might benefit from surgery. Everyone else, not so much. Kegels would probably do the same job, without all the risks associated with an anaesthetic and the risks of haemorrhage and infection associated with surgery. You want sad? You watch an obstetrician explaining to the husband of a women who has undergone FGM that no, he won’t be sewing up his wife after she’s given birth. One of the few times I’ve watched the police have to be called to escort a violent relative from a hospital. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-cosmetic-gynecology/301573/46 "2005-04-30T13:48:53Z")
> [@Danalan](#): > > I paraphrase: ‘Make sure, if you’re gonna get married, that she’s got a pretty pussy. Thirty years out, you’re gonna be looking at that thing, trying to get aroused. If it’s ugly now, imagine what it’s going to be like in thirty years.’ Erm - how many men actually stare at a woman’s vagina, “trying to get aroused”? Aren’t men more likely to get arouses from just the thought of sex, or from the (more visible) breasts and legs, or from physical contact? I’m just trying to imagine some guy in his fifties, married for thirty years, sitting in front of his bored wife spreading her legs for him, frowning his brow in intense concentration as he tries to get a hard-on. I’d say there’s a likelihood a hell of a lot of men - particularly from the older generation - never even saw their wives’ vaginas close up, because sex was often mainly missionary, the wives were coy and preferred “lights out”, and there wasn’t Cosmo and other magazines extolling the virtures and techniques of oral. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-cosmetic-gynecology/301573/47 "2005-04-30T17:49:43Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > Oh and dicks ain’t pretty but I’m sure their owners never feel the urge to change them (NOBODY reads the “enlarge my dick” emails surely???) Chris Knight: You didn’t touch anything, did you? Mitch: No. Chris Knight: Good. Because all of my filth is arranged in alphabetical order. This, for instance, is under ‘H’ for "toy. Mitch: What is it? Chris Knight: It’s a penis stretcher. Do you want to try it? Sorry, it’s a complete and utter non-sequitor/tangent/hijack, but I need a relief from work and a _Real Genius_ quote seemed to be in order. We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion on the evils of female genital mutilation and/or cosmetic modification. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-cosmetic-gynecology/301573/48 "2005-04-30T22:41:42Z")
> [@istara](#): > > Erm - how many men actually stare at a woman’s vagina, “trying to get aroused”? > > Aren’t men more likely to get arouses from just the thought of sex, or from the (more visible) breasts and legs, or from physical contact? We…elll… can’t say how common it is, but I could sit and stare at my missus’ girly bits all day, if she would let me (OK, it would be a kinda weird thing to do for a whole day) and yes, this would arouse me, I think, for the entire duration. That’s not to say that I don’t also enjoy looking at other parts of her too, of course. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-cosmetic-gynecology/301573/49 "2005-04-30T23:29:44Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > We…elll… can’t say how common it is, but I could sit and stare at my missus’ girly bits all day, if she would let me (OK, it would be a kinda weird thing to do for a whole day) and yes, this would arouse me, I think, for the entire duration. > That’s not to say that I don’t also enjoy looking at other parts of her too, of course. Exactly! But the point is you don’t have to _try_. If you had to make an effort to get aroused by staring at one part, you’d surely stare at another, or talk dirty, or something. ---
**Author:** ![pokey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ebca7d/32.png) [@pokey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pokey)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-cosmetic-gynecology/301573/50 "2005-05-01T00:00:46Z")
> [@istara](#): > > Exactly! But the point is you don’t have to _try_. If you had to make an effort to get aroused by staring at one part, you’d surely stare at another, or talk dirty, or something. Sounds like you’re a regular renaissance man. I have to ask a serious question. What will it look like in 30 years? Why’s it called rejuvination? Mine has looked more or less the same since puberty. Am I in for a horrible surprise one of these days? Or do people have this surgery because of the pregnancy/childbirth related stuff? ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-cosmetic-gynecology/301573/51 "2005-05-01T00:17:04Z")
> [@pokey](#): > > Sounds like you’re a regular renaissance man. > > I have to ask a serious question. What will it look like in 30 years? Why’s it called rejuvination? Mine has looked more or less the same since puberty. Am I in for a horrible surprise one of these days? Or do people have this surgery because of the pregnancy/childbirth related stuff? I’m not a man 😉 Honestly - I have no clue how vaginas “age”. I do know they can be less “pretty” after childbirth. But should I have kids, I am sure the prettiness of my vagina would be a fairly low priority concern, unless I took up porn as a career. I do think that the increasing trend of giving women phobias about their vaginas is absolutely fucking obscene. It’s an orifice, nothing more. As long as it’s clean and healthy, and working well for the woman (in terms of pelvic floor and continence and comfort during sex) then it’s fine. If we start having to obsess about the bits that don’t even show in a transparent skintight lycra outfit, then the world is a pretty damn sad place. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-cosmetic-gynecology/301573/52 "2005-05-01T00:22:57Z")
> [@pokey](#): > > Sounds like you’re a regular renaissance man. > > I have to ask a serious question. What will it look like in 30 years? Why’s it called rejuvination? Mine has looked more or less the same since puberty. Am I in for a horrible surprise one of these days? Or do people have this surgery because of the pregnancy/childbirth related stuff? Well, here’s the odd thing; the ‘after’ shots on that website, _sorta_ look like they were trying for a _pre_pubescent configuration. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-cosmetic-gynecology/301573/53 "2005-05-01T00:23:38Z")
> [@istara](#): > > It’s an orifice, nothing more. I assure you, most guys (and some chicks) consider the the Holy Temple of Eris. Nothing more than an oriface, indeed! 😃 Stranger ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-cosmetic-gynecology/301573/54 "2005-05-01T00:25:47Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Well, here’s the odd thing; the ‘after’ shots on that website, _sorta_ look like they were trying for a _pre_pubescent configuration. A website I saw a week or so back, posted on a “wtf?” type website, featured a “vagina comparison”. I tried to bleach it from my mind, but the preferred qualities were all pubescent: smoothness, puffiness(?) and something to do with “high arches” or “curves” or something. I couldn’t even figure what they were talking about, and I didn’t stay long enough to find out. ---
**Author:** ![pokey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ebca7d/32.png) [@pokey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pokey)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-cosmetic-gynecology/301573/55 "2005-05-01T00:26:33Z")
> [@istara](#): > > I’m not a man 😉 Well I guess that’s why you don’t know about old guys staring at their wives’ crotches and praying for wood then! I would like to know how it ages if anyone can tell me. Please don’t make me ask my mom. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-cosmetic-gynecology/301573/56 "2005-05-01T03:25:53Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > You want sad? You watch an obstetrician explaining to the husband of a women who has undergone FGM that no, he won’t be sewing up his wife after she’s given birth. One of the few times I’ve watched the police have to be called to escort a violent relative from a hospital. Oh my god. That’s horrible. I hope the poor woman was okay. ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-cosmetic-gynecology/301573/57 "2005-05-01T03:50:26Z")
> [@istara](#): > > … **giving women phobias about their vaginas is absolutely fucking obscene** … “I woke up. The pain and sickness all over me like an animal. Then I realized what it was. The music coming up from the floor was our old friend, Ludwig Van, and the dreaded Ninth Symphony. And I was touching myself.” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-cosmetic-gynecology/301573/58 "2005-05-01T04:19:23Z")
> [@ZebraShaSha](#): > > “I woke up. The pain and sickness all over me like an animal. Then I realized what it was. The music coming up from the floor was our old friend, Ludwig Van, and the dreaded Ninth Symphony. And I was touching myself.” Huh? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-cosmetic-gynecology/301573/59 "2005-05-01T04:30:44Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Huh? [A Clockwork Orange](http://imdb.com/title/tt0066921/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxsbT01MDB8dHQ9b258ZmI9dXxwbj0wfHE9YSBjbG9ja3dvcmsgb3JhbmdlfGh0bWw9MXxubT1vbg__;fc=1;ft=14), in which Alex is conditioned to become ill at the sight of a woman’s private bits, and incidently attaches a phobic response to the Ninth Symphony. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-cosmetic-gynecology/301573/60 "2005-05-01T04:33:45Z")
Guin, check out “Clockwork Orange” concerning what society and doctors will do to people to make them turn into what society believes they should be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-cosmetic-gynecology/301573.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-cosmetic-gynecology/301573.md?page=4)