# What is counterfeiting? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 23, 1999, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-counterfeiting/1839 "1999-06-23T03:46:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 1999, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-counterfeiting/1839/21 "1999-06-24T03:23:00Z")
I’m not even going to ask how Handy knows that. And I’d just like to say how proud I am of myself for getting you all to say ‘smushing’ * * * “I guess it is possible for one person to make a difference, although most of the time they probably shouldn’t.” ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 1999, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-counterfeiting/1839/22 "1999-06-24T07:36:00Z")
Yes, Barrons’s Legal Dictionary says: > [@](#): > > forged, false, fabricated without right; made in imitation of something else with a view to defraud by passing the false copy for genuine or original So if I clone myself and send my double to dinner with my mother-in-law, will the Secret Service arrest me and confiscate (egads! possibly destroy) my double? * * * There is no course of life so weak and sottish as that which is managed by order, method, and discipline. -Montaigne ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 1999, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-counterfeiting/1839/23 "1999-06-24T09:24:00Z")
Well, i don’t know how universal it is, but the copy machines in my design lab at school, and the new ones at Kinkos won’t even copy a dollar bill. You put it in and all that comes out is a black sheet of paper. I assume th companies have a agreement with the government to self regulate some of these concerns. * * * The facts expressed here belong to everybody, the opinions to me. The distinction is yours to draw… Omniscient; BAG ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 1999, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-counterfeiting/1839/24 "1999-06-24T16:02:00Z")
I’d just like to point out: Guy Propski showed us the actual law concerning which ‘copies’ of money are legal and which are not. This law doesn’t mention ‘intent to defraud’ or any sort of ‘reasonable person’ test. According to this law, if I hand drew a dollar bill, actual size, both sides, in bright red and orange (not black and white), and then put it in a frame in an art museum, I’d still be breaking the law. Right? -Quadell ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 1999, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-counterfeiting/1839/25 "1999-06-24T19:28:00Z")
Yeah, what if you have a cheap inkjet printer that only does composite black? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 1999, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-counterfeiting/1839/26 "1999-06-24T19:43:00Z")
Ok, wait, paraphrasing the Counterfeit Detection Act. The legal rules are: Wrong size; One-sided; AND plates destroyed or black/white; wrong size. Wrong size is in both clauses, but the Tribs copy of the dollar was about the right size. Somethin’ ain’t right. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 1999, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-counterfeiting/1839/27 "1999-06-25T00:47:00Z")
quadell, if you decide to make your 1:1 art version of US currency, you might still have nothing to worry about. The introduction to the regulation Guy quoted is as follows: > [@](#): > > Notwithstanding any provision of chapter 25 of Title 18 of the U.S. Code, authority is hereby given for the printing, publishing or importation, or the making or importation of the necessary plates or items for such printing or publishing, of color illustrations of U.S. currency provided that: What this suggests is that if you make a copy that doesn’t fit the rules in the regulation, then you are still subject to the law of counterfeiting. Therefore, you might not be in trouble if you do not have an intent to defraud. Frankd6 cited US law on counterfeiting. The text of some of those sections: > [@](#): > > Sec. 471. Obligations or securities of United States > Whoever, with intent to defraud, falsely makes, forges, counterfeits, or alters any obligation or other security of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than fifteen years, or both. and > [@](#): > > Sec. 472. Uttering counterfeit obligations or securities > Whoever, with intent to defraud, passes, utters, publishes, or sells, or attempts to pass, utter, publish, or sell, or with like intent brings into the United States or keeps in possession or conceals any falsely made, forged, counterfeited, or altered obligation or other security of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than fifteen years, or both. Federal laws are available on the internet. The US Code, Code of Federal Regulations and many other materials can be found at [http://www.access.gpo.gov/](http://www.access.gpo.gov/) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 1999, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-counterfeiting/1839/28 "1999-07-07T08:44:00Z")
For more info on the penny smushers, here’s an interview with a guy who used to sell them: [http://www.word.com/work/stories/062/index.htm](http://www.word.com/work/stories/062/index.htm) Apparently, the reason you’re smushing the pennies is important. If you’re doing it for the value of the materials, it’s bad. If you’re doing it for the novelty of smushing a penny, it’s ok. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 1999, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-counterfeiting/1839/29 "1999-07-07T13:15:00Z")
It used to be, at least in Canada, that silver dimes ended up having their metal be worth more than their face value. For a while, therefore, there was a law that you couldn’t deface coins, meaning melt them down and sell the silver (i.e. for more than the coin’s face value.) Eventually, the government figured things out and began to make dimes out of nickel instead. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 1999, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-counterfeiting/1839/30 "1999-07-07T15:57:00Z")
Having worked at Kinko’s for a short while, I can attest that they are pretty darn paranoid about people coming in and copying dollar bills. Sure, you might be able to copy a dollar on a regular copier, but the color copier is behind the counter where walk-in customers cannot get to it. There are warnings posted on all copiers regarding copyright and counterfeit laws. I was even told by one copy tech that some color copiers can detect (how?) when a dollar is being scanned for copying and will immediately lock the user out with an error code. The code is a red-flag that someone tried to copy currency, and the tech I was talking to swore that if someone called it in, the Secret Service would show up on their doorstep. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 1999, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-counterfeiting/1839/31 "1999-07-08T05:05:00Z")
This part I read: that a specific type of copier that has protection is the Cannon 500 & 700 Series, and the reason is that if you would color copy 1 $5 bill onto rice paper it would be virtually indistinguishable from the real thing. I think I saw/read an expose where the person passed every $5 bill made in this way. this part is true: I used to work with a Cannon 500 and you cannot copy a dollar bill on it. The cannon 500 is a combination copier/scanner, so I imagine there is some software in there that recognizes the image. * * * This space intentionally left blank [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-counterfeiting/1839.md?page=1)