# What is Critical Race Theory? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2020, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-critical-race-theory/921629 "2020-09-27T00:59:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-critical-race-theory/921629/401 "2021-04-02T15:26:41Z")
> [@ZosterSandstorm](#): > > driving poor whites into the arms of the Trumpists And this is the fear I have for the asian community. Asians are starting to wake up politically and they are waking up to discrimination from the left and the right. It would be nice if asians could vote as a block one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![ZosterSandstorm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e0b2c6/32.png) [@ZosterSandstorm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZosterSandstorm)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-critical-race-theory/921629/402 "2021-04-02T15:30:33Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > Of course it’s allowable. if there is one group at higher risk than another and the objective is to save as many lives as possible then you vaccinate those who need it most. “23 year old black people who work from home” are not at higher risk than “47 year old white people in meat packing plants” but since the only divisions being used are “over 50 or under 50” and “white or nonwhite” they are being vaccinated first. Race itself is not a risk factor for the disease, it’s a very crude proxy for things that are such as nature of employment. Just like there is nothing about having more melanin in your skin that makes you predisposed to commit crime, it’s eliding a LOT of in-between steps that produce the difference in average and ignore individuality. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-critical-race-theory/921629/403 "2021-04-02T15:33:00Z")
We don’t know if there is a genetic component to covid that makes whites more resistant to it or blacks less resistant. We don’t know if it is behavior or environment. All we know is that blacks die more frequently. And if we are going to let smokers cut to the front of the line (clearly behavior based), why is it so offensive that blacks (who are at greater risk of dying from covid get moved to the front of the line. It could save thousands of lives). There is nothing intrinsically fair about a random distribution of vaccines when the harmful effects of the disease does not seem to be randomly distributed. I generally agree with you, the overly woke CRT crowd rely on failed logic and accusations of racism but in this case where there is actually an objective measurable difference in outcomes based purely on race, it would be illogical not to recognize those racial differences. When al things being equal, blacks die more frequently than whites we should vaccinate the blacks first. That is basic triage, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-critical-race-theory/921629/405 "2021-04-02T16:18:42Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I didn’t do anything. Said like that isn’t an action in-and-of itself. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-critical-race-theory/921629/406 "2021-04-02T16:23:40Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Said like that isn’t an action in-and-of itself. Nobody has an affirmative duty to correct something he or she didn’t do him or herself. Nobody. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-critical-race-theory/921629/407 "2021-04-02T16:37:16Z")
Aah, so receiving stolen goods is not a crime in your world. After all, the fence doesn’t do the theft. And as long as I didn’t diddle any kiddies, I don’t have a moral duty to do anything about all the kiddie-diddling I know my neighbour does. Naah, sorry, wrap it in all the legalese you like in denial, but benefiting from past injustices _is_ something you do yourself. Unless you’ve made adequate redress, it very much is your active, ongoing action. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-critical-race-theory/921629/408 "2021-04-02T17:53:46Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > That’s not my problem. That’s theirs. Well, don’t complain about any degree of resentment that you perceive coming in your direction as a result of that statement. If I understand you correctly, it’s not that you even deny that there’s been disparate treatment among races and that centuries of institutionalized discrimination still has adverse consequences now - you don’t even seem to be denying that. What you seem to be saying is, “I really don’t give a toss.” This is what you and other conservatives who lean on individualism don’t understand: humans have a built-in fairness meter. They know when they’re getting screwed and they instinctively resist and fight back against it, and if they don’t, they have to fight the urge not to. This inevitably leads to conflict, to resentment, to tension. Don’t for a moment expect an end to animosity toward “whiteness” with that callous attitude. And with demographic trends in the US turning against a white majority, and with global political trends moving toward a rebalancing of power between the mostly white “West” and nonwhites elsewhere, I’d argue it absolutely is your problem, like it or not. It’s better to negotiate for some degree of understanding than clinging to an obsolete paradigm that is predicated on white, manipulative, capitalistic ‘virtue.’ ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-critical-race-theory/921629/409 "2021-04-02T18:08:13Z")
Not only is CRT intrinsically self-contradictory it also simplifies history to the point that it’s completely inaccurate. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-critical-race-theory/921629/410 "2021-04-02T18:39:05Z")
Well, I have been reading about what your side claims CRT is, and it does not pass even the smell test. As is usually, there is never a cite showing any of the scholars involved in CRT even pondering about what is being discussed here. Like with the illuminati (another boogieman), right-wingers are assuming a big conspiracy, and not showing any evidence. Criticisms like yours are so far based on 2nd hand opinions from pundits that claim to know what CRT is [while not knowing that it remains a framework for how to approach an issue](https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/subject_specific_writing/writing_in_literature/literary_theory_and_schools_of_criticism/critical_race_theory.html), how does any CRT researcher or paper from them stands does depend on proper research and others that review them. So, do you have any cites from CRT proponents regarding any of the issues conservatives have a beef with in this thread?\*\* . . . \*\* And it should be noticed that when the caricature and misunderstandings are the ones the right is using to criticize it, it is no wonder then how the right wing efforts end up looking as misguided warnings regarding the new right wing boogieman. ---
**Author:** ![ZosterSandstorm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e0b2c6/32.png) [@ZosterSandstorm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZosterSandstorm)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-critical-race-theory/921629/411 "2021-04-02T19:03:53Z")
So we’re doing the “CRT doesn’t exist, no one believes in it, you’re making it up” thing (step 1) _simultaneously_ with “of course this insane, illegal project of CRT must be supported by all right-thinking people” (step 4). I guess once you go down the path of this ideology no form of bad reasoning is off limits. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-critical-race-theory/921629/412 "2021-04-02T19:08:53Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > We don’t know if there is a genetic component to covid that makes whites more resistant to it or blacks less resistant. We don’t know if it is behavior or environment. All we know is that blacks die more frequently. > > And if we are going to let smokers cut to the front of the line (clearly behavior based), why is it so offensive that blacks (who are at greater risk of dying from covid get moved to the front of the line. It could save thousands of lives). Exactly. Literally nobody here or in the Vermont healthcare system seems to be saying “aw just let the POC be vaccinated first as a form of reparations or something”. Instead, what they’re saying is that since being nonwhite seems to correlate with higher risk, it makes sense to bump nonwhite people up in the vaccination queue. Which, epidemiologically speaking, it does; this ain’t rocket science, folks. (It’s somewhat grimly funny to think how blithely the current outrage merchants would be taking such policy approaches for granted if it were white people who were statistically at higher risk for COVID.) ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-critical-race-theory/921629/413 "2021-04-02T20:01:52Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > (It’s somewhat grimly funny to think how blithely the current outrage merchants would be taking such policy approaches for granted if it were white people who were statistically at higher risk for COVID.) I would point out that one of the outraged people is asian. This is not because he is a secret white supremacist. I think it is because the woke left has turned him against anything that smacks of racial preferences and is slowly turning him into a conservative. This sort of thing is suspect ab initio for folks who are tired of woke anti-asian discrimination. But yes, from a public health perspective, there is really nothing to see here. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-critical-race-theory/921629/414 "2021-04-02T20:11:43Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > I would point out that one of the outraged people is asian. This is not because he is a secret white supremacist. Nobody needs to be a “secret white supremacist”, or for that matter an overt white supremacist, in order to blithely take for granted public policy approaches that prioritize the needs or desires of white people. Such approaches are baked into the system and into all our perceptions of what constitutes “normal”, whether we’re consciously anti-racist or not. As for current memes of anti-Asian “backlash” against critical race theory, I think [Mari Matsuda says it better than I could:](http://reappropriate.co/2021/03/mari-matsuda-critical-race-theory-is-not-anti-asian/) > [@](#): > > I understand yet another attack on Critical Race Theory (CRT) has surfaced, this time claiming CRT is anti-Asian. This kind of opportunism always trails along to disrupt progressive movements. It has been there from the start of CRT. Many built their careers attacking CRT, Trumpsters being the latest iteration on the Right. […] Asian Americans are at the center of CRT analysis and have been from the start. […] > > Suffice to say, Asian American thinkers were central in the development of CRT, and we were pushed and supported by our Black and Latinx colleagues. […] > > Attacks on CRT are boring and repetitive and will always find an audience because white gatekeepers love to pretend they care about Asians by elevating Asians who will attack Black people. ---
**Author:** ![ZosterSandstorm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e0b2c6/32.png) [@ZosterSandstorm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZosterSandstorm)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-critical-race-theory/921629/415 "2021-04-02T20:14:48Z")
As was done to death in the magnet schools thread, there are certainly Asians on both sides of the CRT debate, just as there are Hypothetical White People reacting to non-existent situations opposite to what is actually happening. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-critical-race-theory/921629/416 "2021-04-02T20:19:11Z")
For someone who cites second hand internet opinions on a pretty regular basis, you seem to have a very poor opinion of second hand opinions. Critical race theory is a fairly bankrupt theory these days. It means whatever you want it to mean. It started in law schools as a way of examining how laws could be racist without any racism or intent of racism by anyone. It is a perspective that was meant to contribute the greater discussion, not replace logic and reason. It included the notion that racism could exist without racists. But modern day crt seems to just conclude that everyone is racist. For example: There is this concept in law called the reasonableness standard. It is a very important part of the legal line drawing process to say what is reasonable and what is not. What constitutes reasonable depends a lot on who is drawing the line. And when all the lines are being drawn by white men, their subjective experiences informs what they consider reasonable. All of a sudden the things white men do fall on the reasonable side of the line and the stuff that black people do fall on the unreasonable side of the line. There is almost no way to fix this without having black people in the room when the lines are being drawn. Same with asians and hispanics and women and every other minority group. But these days crt is frequently a form of woke academic masturbation. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-critical-race-theory/921629/417 "2021-04-02T20:37:19Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Aah, so receiving stolen goods is not a crime in your world. After all, the fence doesn’t do the theft. what stolen goods are you referring to? > [@MrDibble](#): > > And as long as I didn’t diddle any kiddies, I don’t have a moral duty to do anything about all the kiddie-diddling I know my neighbour does. I think pretty much eveyone reckons they have a moral duty to report crimes that they know about. What you can’t do is consider me a criminal on account of the kiddie-diddling done by my ancestors and hold me accountable. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Unless you’ve made adequate redress what form would an adequate redress take? under what circumstances? from who? to who? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-critical-race-theory/921629/418 "2021-04-02T20:44:47Z")
His beliefs are down to him. They’re not the fault of others. If you (the general you) think you’re becoming conservative, that’s on you, not the fault of the woke left or any other bogeyman. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-critical-race-theory/921629/419 "2021-04-02T20:46:24Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > As for current memes of anti-Asian “backlash” against critical race theory, I think [Mari Matsuda says it better than I could:](http://reappropriate.co/2021/03/mari-matsuda-critical-race-theory-is-not-anti-asian/) Mari Matsuda seems to be arguing that crt is not anti-asian. And I agree that in the beginning it wasn’t. When it was a bunch of law school academics talking about theories of justice there was no element of anti-asian bias. But today in areas outside of legal academia, there is anti-asian bias. This is particularly true in the education departments of various ivory tower institutions. I don’t see where she is saying that there is no asian backlash against crt. That’s because there is a backlash. She claims that crt addresses asian issues and give s a few examples but does not address the particular concerns that are causing the backlash in the asian community, the issues that have arisen as a result of the proliferation of crt type of analysis outside of legal academia. The argument is that the disiples of crt have an anti-asian bias and if storytelling and anecdote is sufficient to prove a case, then the case has been proven many times over. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-critical-race-theory/921629/420 "2021-04-02T20:46:47Z")
So, as expected, no cite related to what they would think about vaccinations here then. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-critical-race-theory/921629/421 "2021-04-02T20:50:06Z")
What are you talking about? I don’t think crt has anything to do with the vaccination schedule in vermont. If you do, then please feel free to make your case. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-critical-race-theory/921629.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-critical-race-theory/921629.md?page=22)