# What is december still doing here? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 7, 2003, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-december-still-doing-here/193519 "2003-08-07T04:13:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-december-still-doing-here/193519/121 "2003-08-07T23:30:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*What you said was this: > > “I’m actually quite surprised that you think that most people have this opinion.” > > My response was: > > “I’m surprised that you’re surprised since it is an opinion that you yourself expressed. Don’t sell yourself short by thinking you’re in a minority.” > > Where is the alleged misquote? > > So far in this thread, you are the very epitome of the way you have characterized December, which, to refresh your memory, was this: > > "…his debating “style” is so obnoxious, spurious, vile, insulting, devious, backhanded, etc.etc… " > > Everything quoted above is copied and pasted verbatim, Mr. or Ms. Pot. \*\* Cute. Oh, the irony…😃 Here’s my _complete_ quote: "Hardly. \*\*I’d say there were few debaters here who act in that manner. \*\*And even fewer who do so and manage to remain. december is certainly one. I’m actually quite surprised that you think that most people have this opinion. What an unpleasant view of debating you must have." Your **opinion** was that “Few debators do NOT say that about their opponents.” I respectfully disagreed. I still do, though no longer respectfully. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2003, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-december-still-doing-here/193519/122 "2003-08-07T23:33:34Z")
Btw, I do not think **december** ought to be banned. But I do think his “thread-starting” abilities ought to be restricted. They are a stain on the board. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2003, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-december-still-doing-here/193519/123 "2003-08-07T23:49:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by leander \* > **Btw, I do not think december ought to be banned. But I do think his “thread-starting” abilities ought to be restricted.** In another community I was in (the Cloudmakers) we had one member who had joined late, and proceeded to hijack every single discussion on the board to his own agenda. The mods of that group decided to limit his abilities to post messages, and it resulted in a remarkably more reasonable tone of discussion from all concerned, _including_ the offending member. Unfortunately, the sheer volume of **december** ’s posting is such that it would be unfair to request to our SD mods to request the same for him. Too bad, because I don’t think **december** should be banned either, but something like the Greenlaw Rule would be ideal for him. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2003, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-december-still-doing-here/193519/124 "2003-08-07T23:54:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avalonian \* > \*\*Unfortunately, the sheer volume of **december** ’s posting is such that it would be unfair to request to our SD mods to request the same for him. > > Too bad, because I don’t think **december** should be banned either, but something like the Greenlaw Rule would be ideal for him. \*\* The Admins probably won’t go for this but the problem could be solved by giving december his own forum. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-december-still-doing-here/193519/125 "2003-08-08T00:02:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spavined Gelding \* > \*\*We are dealing with an elderly retired actuary from, for God’s sake, New Jersey. From a lifetime of calculating statics his soul has withered and hardened until it is no bigger and no more use than a clinker from an old time coal furnace. To hell with him. Let him howl his abuse and irrational diatribes into the wind and hear no response but the echo of his own voice. \*\* You’re talking about the concept of a ‘shunning’, SG. Interesting concept. But I don’t think december’s detractors have the strength of character to simply ignore his posts and let him talk only to himself and his fellow travellers. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-december-still-doing-here/193519/126 "2003-08-08T00:44:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* > \*\*You’re talking about the concept of a ‘shunning’, SG. Interesting concept. > > But I don’t think december’s detractors have the strength of character to simply ignore his posts and let him talk only to himself and his fellow travellers. \*\* I think you’re selling a bunch of people short. I’d say there are plenty of people who realized long ago that trying to reason with december is pointless so they don’t even bother opening his threads anymore. Some also avoid threads about him. There’s always going to be someone who unwittingly stumbles into december’s threads so what **SG** proposes won’t really work. ---
**Author:** ![Eolbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@Eolbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eolbo)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-december-still-doing-here/193519/127 "2003-08-08T01:29:54Z")
I’d be sad to see December go just as I was sad to see Collounsbury go though for different reasons. They add flavour and character to the board and were sure to liven things up. Even though December is a garden variety propagandist and all round dillpickle he still has a useful contribution to make. If that contribution is only to serve as a bad example and to make conservatives look like ignorant hatemongers then so be it. No banning please. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-december-still-doing-here/193519/128 "2003-08-08T01:46:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by leander \* > \*\*Btw, I do not think **december** ought to be banned. But I do think his “thread-starting” abilities ought to be restricted. \*\* The new Steven King movie: _ **Threadstarter** _. A truly chilling concept. If **december’s** undoubted talents at eliciting visceral howls of rage from opponents are too much to bear, consider again a proposal I made awhile back. Someone with more time on his/her hands than I, plus a bit of webspace, could do a **december** page, complete with tasteful graphics and a set of his dumbest OPs and postings, complete with a numerical list of the fallacies he redundantly falls into. Then, whenever the latest dopey OP appears, one could simply link to the page, say “Bankrupt tactic #6” and move on. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-december-still-doing-here/193519/129 "2003-08-08T02:02:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > **Debaser** , that is some cold-assed shit. Not what some of those posters had to say, but the way you affirmatively misrepresented what they had to say. Ugh. :eek: I cannot fucking believe that you went and read that thread and aren’t outraged. I didn’t misrepresent anything. The OP stated exactly what I said it did. He wanted US soldiers to die. He went on to defend that position and was supported by others. You quote a sentance of Dinsdale saying he “truly do not wish harm upon any individual in the US/coalition military.” Gee, what a swell guy. He only wants them to suffer large casualites. That sounds like wishing harm to me. It’s just not on an individual basis. Whatever. As to this crap: E.g., **TVAA** : “If the war goes well, and this strategy becomes the avowed doctrine of the US, then many more people will eventually die.” **MMI** : “The flip side is I don’t want any of our servicepeople to die. I do not know that I could face the math, of having people die, even if it could alter potential enemies perceptions.” **TVAA** : “I wouldn’t **prefer** the suffering and death of those involved in the war.” **Latro:** “What other way do you people see to prevent this nightmare [i.e., “a century of war”] from unfolding?” Great. So, they have _really good reasons_ (in your opinion, apparantly) for wanting US soldiers to die. It’s still fucking wrong. Either way, they got away with it in GD, when **december** gets shipped off to the pit for far less. The OP of that post alone was way beyond anything **december** said in his thread. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-december-still-doing-here/193519/130 "2003-08-08T02:06:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeff Olsen \* > If you can manage to pull your head out of your ass, would you mind showing me where _I_ called for december’s banning? Since you ask so nicely: Re-reading you post I can see that the comment “The SDMB doesn’t need this shit.” Could mean we don’t need to be arguing about **december**. I took it to mean “The SDMB doesn’t need **december**.” Am I correct in my second interpretation? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-december-still-doing-here/193519/131 "2003-08-08T02:10:34Z")
I’m posting while drunk. Sorry, doesn’t often happen. I was curious about this thread and that fucking rediculous post by **minty** drove me to log in. My _second interpretation_ of your post, **Jeff** was the reading that “the SDMB doesn’t need this shit (to be _arguing_ over december)”. Assuming this is correct, I apologize for my mis-reading your post earlier today. I thought you were calling for **decembers** banning, saying we don’t need this shit (december). ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-december-still-doing-here/193519/132 "2003-08-08T02:18:06Z")
**ElvisL1ves** > [@](#): > > You’ve even gone some way to admitting that now, and you’re down to still misrepresenting only 1 of your cites. Was that last omission deliberate, to somehow avoid admitting in public that you’re not only a shithead but an obnoxious one too? WTF are you talking about? I’ve ommitted nothing. I’ve admitted nothing. And I haven’t misrepresented anything either. I will however, submit that you are a toolbag who needs to go back and read that thread. :wally ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-december-still-doing-here/193519/133 "2003-08-08T03:05:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Debaser \* > \*\*Assuming this is correct, I apologize for my mis-reading your post earlier today. I thought you were calling for _decembers_ banning, saying we don’t need this shit (december). \*\* Apology accepted. Yes, I was saying we all could find better use for our time instead of going 'round & 'round about december. Everyone keeps saying the same old thing but nobody’s listening. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-december-still-doing-here/193519/134 "2003-08-08T04:21:17Z")
[http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/7/18/205013/523](http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/7/18/205013/523) ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-december-still-doing-here/193519/135 "2003-08-08T07:13:45Z")
This thread locked in 5…4…3…2… ---
**Author:** ![Henry\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d78d45/32.png) [@Henry\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henry_B)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-december-still-doing-here/193519/136 "2003-08-08T08:07:53Z")
What is december still doing here? Using his right to free speach. And what do we do if we have no-one to correct? If everyone thinks likevise? It would not be nice just to streamline all thinking. That said: Morons of the world unite! Show us how stupid rants You can produce from the ultra-right! P.S. I have even read about a guy that explained that communism came to USA when the US post was run by the government. That was most enlighting 😉 Henry ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-december-still-doing-here/193519/137 "2003-08-08T09:42:39Z")
Henry With all due respect, before you call people morons, You should learn that free speech in the US means that _government_ may not abridge speech. Private interests, like the Chicago Reader, may censor whatever they please. Here is the full text of the First Amendment: “ **Congress** shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” Emphasis mine. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-december-still-doing-here/193519/138 "2003-08-08T11:15:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gorsnak \* > \*\*[http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/7/18/205013/523](http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/7/18/205013/523) \*\* Is there anyone who thinks that **december** does NOT hyperbolize his rhetoric with the intention of being inciteful? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-december-still-doing-here/193519/139 "2003-08-08T11:22:16Z")
Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Coil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Coil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coil)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2003, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-december-still-doing-here/193519/140 "2003-08-08T12:00:17Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Mr. Svinlesha \* > \*\* > However, I don’t think it’s his ideas, per se, that lead so many posters to react to **december**. It’s the sense that his presence diminishes the quality of the discourse here. On a board ostensibly dedicated to the elimination of ignorance, posters like **Colluonsbury** get banned because they use a little obscenity in the wrong forum, while **december** spreads right-wing agit-prop like manure on a wheat field, and is seemingly untouchable. There’s something about it that just seems contrary to the spirit of the board, and that a lot of people react to – quite legitimately, IMHO._\* It seems to me that **december** mostly posts about political topics. On most political issues there is simply no right or wrong answer. It is just a matter of opinion. Should taxes be cut? Should the US go to war with Iraq? Those are political topics to which there is no one true answer and thus the fighting ignorance part does not apply. > [@](#): > > But it’s a mistake to take him seriously, or to labor under the illusion that reasoned, well-supported debate will change his mind.Yeah, that doesn’t surprise me. I figure there are quite a few people on **both** sides of the political spectrum who will never change their mind no matter how convincing arguments their opponents put forth. I think that a lot of the debates started by **december** can be quite interesting reading and quite enjoyable to read, apart from the posters who respond just by calling him an idiot and never seriously try to counter his arguments. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-december-still-doing-here/193519.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-december-still-doing-here/193519.md?page=8)