# What is Donald Trump's IQ? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 10, 2017, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-donald-trumps-iq/798521 "2017-10-10T22:11:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-donald-trumps-iq/798521/61 "2017-10-11T16:21:36Z")
> [@Tigers2B1](#): > > No, he graduated from the Wharton school which is probably not an easy task. I doubt its a lie on he way I assume you mean but I do suspect, like his wealth, there is not as much there as he suggests. Please note that he did _not_ graduate from the prestigious Wharton MBA program. When people refer admiringly to a Wharton degree this is the one they are talking about. He got a bachelor’s degree in economics; I have a friend who got an undergraduate degree in economics from Penn, he never says he graduated from Wharton. We have already determined that Trump did not get into Penn out of high school, but was able to transfer in based on family connections. Once you are in an undergraduate program you can just slide by, especially if you have enough money to pay for private tutoring, “help” with writing papers, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-donald-trumps-iq/798521/62 "2017-10-11T16:32:12Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > No, he didn’t. See the post from **Duckster** and **Marvin the Martian** above. Is it too much to ask that you read your own thread? Sorry but yes he did. He got a degree in economics from the Wharton School. This is easy enough to find. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-donald-trumps-iq/798521/63 "2017-10-11T16:36:37Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > Please note that he did _not_ graduate from the prestigious **Wharton MBA program.** When people refer admiringly to a Wharton degree this is the one they are talking about. He got a bachelor’s degree in economics; I have a friend who got an undergraduate degree in economics from Penn, he never says he graduated from Wharton. We have already determined that Trump did not get into Penn out of high school, but was able to transfer in based on family connections. Once you are in an undergraduate program you can just slide by, especially if you have enough money to pay for private tutoring, “help” with writing papers, etc. > [@Tigers2B1](#): > > Sorry but yes he did. **He got a degree in economics from the Wharton School.** This is easy enough to find. Not the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-donald-trumps-iq/798521/64 "2017-10-11T16:37:53Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > No, he didn’t. See the post from **Duckster** and **Marvin the Martian** above. Is it too much to ask that you read your own thread? And BTW - undergraduate or graduate, both are the #1 business schools in the country according to US News. ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-donald-trumps-iq/798521/65 "2017-10-11T16:49:01Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Not the same thing. Not the same thing as what? Who said he had an MBA? I only said he had a degree from the Wharton School of business - which he does. In fact Wharton has 2500 plus undergrads according to their Wiki page and Trump is listed as a graduate. Not sure why this is even an issue. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-donald-trumps-iq/798521/66 "2017-10-11T17:04:15Z")
His IQ is likely not as low as some of us have posited in this thread. However, it’s also likely not [nearly as high as he thinks it is](https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/332308211321425920?lang=en). ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-donald-trumps-iq/798521/67 "2017-10-11T17:09:56Z")
The MacArthur “Genius” Grants were [announced today](MacArthur Foundation Names 2017 ‘Genius’ Grant Winners) and-- WTF??-- Trump wasn’t among them?? _Wah-wah-wah_… must be rigged! Fake news! Hillary’s fault! It’s a dumb, worthless award anyway… I’ve won better awards every day and twice on Sunday! ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-donald-trumps-iq/798521/68 "2017-10-11T17:16:50Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > Please note that he did _not_ graduate from the prestigious Wharton MBA program. When people refer admiringly to a Wharton degree this is the one they are talking about. **He got a bachelor’s degree in economics; I have a friend who got an undergraduate degree in economics from Penn, he never says he graduated from Wharton**. We have already determined that Trump did not get into Penn out of high school, but was able to transfer in based on family connections. Once you are in an undergraduate program you can just slide by, especially if you have enough money to pay for private tutoring, “help” with writing papers, etc. (bolding added). The University of Pennsylvania College of Arts and Sciences offers a Bachelor of Arts in Economics. The Wharton School offers a Bachelor of Science in Economics. I’m sure your friend did not graduate from the Wharton School, but I’m not seeing any evidence to suggest that Trump did not in fact do so. To me, graduating from the Wharton School qualifies as graduating from the Wharton School, but perhaps not. (It’s also been my experience that a bachelor’s degree from the Wharton School is “admirable,” but I take no position on that) ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-donald-trumps-iq/798521/69 "2017-10-11T17:19:50Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > The MacArthur “Genius” Grants were [announced today](MacArthur Foundation Names 2017 ‘Genius’ Grant Winners) and-- WTF??-- Trump wasn’t among them?? _Wah-wah-wah_… must be rigged! Fake news! Hillary’s fault! It’s a dumb, worthless award anyway… I’ve won better awards every day and twice on Sunday! You forgot to end with, “Sad.” ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-donald-trumps-iq/798521/70 "2017-10-11T17:24:38Z")
I really don’t care what his IQ score may be. It won’t negate the fact that he is self centered blubbering idiot, who has too much power for our own good. It scares me to think what he could get this country ( and therefore me and mine) into. This won’t end well. I wonder, maybe, if whatever is wrong with Baron Trump may have been inherited from his Father? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-donald-trumps-iq/798521/71 "2017-10-11T17:24:39Z")
Trumps IQ isn’t the issue; its his E (emotional)Q because he really fails at working with others. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-donald-trumps-iq/798521/72 "2017-10-11T17:25:40Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > This is not true. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-donald-trumps-iq/798521/73 "2017-10-11T17:30:39Z")
From an old Victorian melodrama spoof: _“I’m not as dumb as you think I am!” “No… you couldn’t be.”_ > [@BigT](#): > > The most I’ve seen is where they analyze his vocabulary for the grade level. He speaks under a sixth grade level. Some tried to claim it was merely a rhetorical strategy, but this has seemed not to change. > > Most other candidates spoke at a 6-8the grade level, and I know I’ve heard many of them speak at higher levels. It might be more fun to analyze his grammar. I’m guessing a few grades lower. Depends whether rambling and breaking sentences in mid-thought to switch focus also counts against him… > [@jtur88](#): > > I’d guess it is in the 120 neighborhood. The fact that he even brought it up means that he knows it is a respectable number – fairly intelligent people who get disappointing scores tend to pooh-pooh it. It’s pretty hard to graduate from any university without at least 110. It is certainly above body temperature by a fair margin. The fact that he speaks of IQ score as having any meaning signals that he does fairly well on them. > > Its entirely possible that somewhere along the way he scored a high number on an IQ type test, which is fairly easy to do if you take a dozen of those kinds of tests over a short period of time. You get to where you can ace them, and I went over 150 a few times when I was in college, and hung out with some of the psych graduate students who used me as a guinea pig on some beta tests. I would not claim one without that caveat, though. This. You really have to hang out with some average people to realize how bad someone has to be to be simply average. I’m going to guess he’s somewhere between 110 and 120 (let’s say 115). Good enough to get by. It’s his combination of personality traits more than his smarts that get him places. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-donald-trumps-iq/798521/74 "2017-10-11T17:43:13Z")
> [@Tigers2B1](#): > > Sorry but yes he did. He got a degree in economics from the Wharton School. This is easy enough to find. Sorry, I was mistaken. However, I have literally never heard anyone refer to the undergraduate program as the Wharton School, and I’m surrounded all day by business majors. They would just refer to it as UPenn business school, or Penn, or something like that. Apologies for the misunderstanding on my part. Just so you know, when anyone else says they graduated from Wharton, they mean the MBA program. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-donald-trumps-iq/798521/75 "2017-10-11T17:52:13Z")
And claiming that “he must be smart; he received a degree from [whatever school]” is something of a fallacy. Sure he might have been smart fifty years ago, but it doesn’t tell us how smart he is today. The article I linked to upthread suggests that he’s experienced “cognitive decline”. In short, he’s stupider than he once was. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-donald-trumps-iq/798521/76 "2017-10-11T18:06:23Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > I really don’t care what his IQ score may be… Well, of course we don’t care. TRUMP is the one who cares. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-donald-trumps-iq/798521/77 "2017-10-11T18:09:02Z")
[Colbert nails it!](http://www.newsweek.com/trump-smart-stephen-colbert-reveals-presidents-iq-score-following-trumps-rex-682120)😃 ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-donald-trumps-iq/798521/78 "2017-10-11T19:03:49Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Sorry, I was mistaken. However, I have literally never heard anyone refer to the undergraduate program as the Wharton School, and I’m surrounded all day by business majors. They would just refer to it as UPenn business school, or Penn, or something like that. Apologies for the misunderstanding on my part. > > Just so you know, when anyone else says they graduated from Wharton, they mean the MBA program. I don’t think that’s true. The name of UPenn’s business school is “The Wharton School.” If you look at their website, you can see a [long list](https://www.wharton.upenn.edu/academic-programs/) of all the non-MBA programs they offer. I’m not surrounded by business majors all day, but I did take some classes at Penn, and have never heard of this idea that the name “Wharton” is shorthand for “Wharton MBA” only. One of the guys in my classes had gone to Wharton as an undergrad, and that was how he put it–he “went to Wharton.” ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-donald-trumps-iq/798521/79 "2017-10-11T20:22:46Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > I don’t think that’s true. The name of UPenn’s business school is “The Wharton School.” If you look at their website, you can see a [long list](https://www.wharton.upenn.edu/academic-programs/) of all the non-MBA programs they offer. I’m not surrounded by business majors all day, but I did take some classes at Penn, and have never heard of this idea that the name “Wharton” is shorthand for “Wharton MBA” only. One of the guys in my classes had gone to Wharton as an undergrad, and that was how he put it–he “went to Wharton.” I agree. Trump is not inflating his resume to say he graduated from Wharton: he did. A claim to have gotten an MBA is not implicit in a person saying they graduated from Wharton. Trump’s famous inflation wrt to Wharton is saying he graduated first in his class: he did not. Major media publications used to print that on his word, in the days of developer/celebrity (non-political or left leaning) Trump. Still, Trump made it up not anyone else. I don’t have enough experience correlating my impression of people with knowing their ‘IQ’ test scores to estimate Trump’s (especially just knowing a public persona). I never took an IQ test. We were given various standardized tests from early on but I don’t think they were IQ tests on the ‘mid 100’s is great’ scale, just %-tiles they told us. This was in the NY area and several decades ago (I’m figuring such tests have lost not gained currency since). Anyway my impression of Trump is that his often astounding lack of relatively common knowledge is a function of lack of interest, based on a personality type, thought process and past experience that tells him it’s not important to learn. I think it less likely he wants to know such stuff but can’t learn or remember it (when Fredrick Douglass lived, seemed to refer to him as if still alive; what the nuclear triad is, not bothering to learn that _after_ having been tripped up by it early on, etc.). And he certainly has a high level of intuition for his pre-political world of media savvy self promotion nominally at least in the real estate business (I’m viewing his reality TV stardom and earlier status as tabloid fixture in NY as one continuum, as strictly a real estate guy he had mixed success). Then he showed his talent was more than one dimensional with his insight into what a lot of the GOP base had been wanting to hear but had not from other GOP’ers, and enough general election voters wanted to hear too. I view it as unlikely he entirely bumbled into both of those successes, though OTOH he’s not the kind of person to explicitly think things through in a highly self aware way. He’s intuitive. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-donald-trumps-iq/798521/80 "2017-10-11T20:45:04Z")
I think the important thing to take away from this incident is that this is a spat between the President and his Secretary of State. It doesn’t matter which of them is a fucking moron and which of them has a lower IQ. Whichever one of them wins, the administration as a whole loses. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-donald-trumps-iq/798521.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-donald-trumps-iq/798521.md?page=5)