# What is "dry ammunition" in a defense-industry breakdown? (here, Israel) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 2, 2018, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-dry-ammunition-in-a-defense-industry-breakdown-here-israel/813474 "2018-05-02T18:57:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-dry-ammunition-in-a-defense-industry-breakdown-here-israel/813474/21 "2018-05-03T17:20:49Z")
I think you’re all looking too deeply. In this context, it’s just referring to bulk ammunition that is packaged in water-proof, moisture-proof, containers. Not all ammunition purchased in bulk comes in water-proof ammo cans. But most military ammunition does, for obvious reasons. It lasts longer and performs more consistently. An order for “dry ammunition” is a request for ammunition in water-tight containers that will have a much longer shelf-life. Here is a link to bulk ammunition for sale. [https://www.ammunitiondepot.com/534-bulk-ammo](https://www.ammunitiondepot.com/534-bulk-ammo) Of the top three items, only the one on the far right is “dry ammunition”. It comes in an ammo can with a water-proof gasket. The others are simply packaged in cardboard boxes. While there might be no evidence of moisture or water contamination, it’s not going to have the same guaranteed shelf-life that sealed ammo would have. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-dry-ammunition-in-a-defense-industry-breakdown-here-israel/813474/22 "2018-05-03T20:55:20Z")
Along the lines of **Bear Nenno** , the [US Navy](http://www.msc.navy.mil/PM6/) (although perhaps confusingly as a direct 1-1 answer to OP), refers to “the” topic this way: Our Fleet Ordnance and Dry Cargo (PM6) program has twelve Dry Cargo/Ammunition ships and two Fast Combat Support ships. Dry Cargo and Ammunition ships, or T-AKEs, were designed to replenish dry and refrigerated stores as well as ordnance. They have replaced combat stores ships and ammunition ships incorporating the capabilities of both platforms into one hull. These multi-product ships increase the delivery capability to provide food, fuel, spare parts, ammunition and potable water to the U.S. Navy and our allies… ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-dry-ammunition-in-a-defense-industry-breakdown-here-israel/813474/23 "2018-05-04T17:29:19Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > dry ammunition (9%) Machine translation glitch I think. The phrase in (some) Hebrew versions of apparently the same article is יבשה תחמושת which Google translate renders as ‘dry ammunition’, but יבשה itself means ‘dry land’. Presumably it refers to ammunition used for land weapons. Also other (Hebrew) versions of the article, or different articles about the same press release, expand that category to ‘dry land weapons and ammunition’. So meaning I assume weapons for use by land armies other than those in separate categories like optics, air defense systems etc. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-dry-ammunition-in-a-defense-industry-breakdown-here-israel/813474/24 "2018-05-04T17:54:07Z")
I’m no expert but יַבָּשָׁה means dry land; יְבֵשָׁה just means dry (feminine, singular). The context should make it clear which word is used. And “dry ammunition” would be “תחמושת יבשה” and definitely not “יבשה תחמושת”, so you must have got a corrupted version of the article, or you’re absolutely right and the original referred to land as opposed to naval weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-dry-ammunition-in-a-defense-industry-breakdown-here-israel/813474/25 "2018-05-04T18:16:01Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > I’m no expert but יַבָּשָׁה means dry land; יְבֵשָׁה just means dry (feminine, singular). The context should make it clear which word is used. And “dry ammunition” would be “תחמושת יבשה” and definitely not “יבשה תחמושת”, so you must have got a corrupted version of the article, or you’re absolutely right and the original referred to land as opposed to naval weapons. I’m less of an expert and did it very mechanically. I copy/pasted what was in several different Hebrew articles, the two words always coming out as ‘dry ammunition’ in Google translate, but the shorter word by itself coming out ‘dry land’ (a ‘verified translation’ per GT). Then adding the fact that some articles written on this same topic give the category as ‘weapons and ammunition’ not just ‘ammunition’, ‘dry weapons and ammunition’ definitely makes no sense IMO. It must IMO refer to _land_ weapons and ammunition. I don’t claim the computer picks up all the differences in letters or diacritical marks, nor keeps right\>left, left\>right straight. That’s just what I did and the combination of factors make me vote for ‘error’ basically rather than pondering what ‘dry ammunition’ means. I do actually read a couple of languages which don’t use Latin letters, not this particular one. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-dry-ammunition-in-a-defense-industry-breakdown-here-israel/813474/26 "2018-05-04T18:17:16Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > Machine translation glitch I think. The phrase in (some) Hebrew versions of apparently the same article is יבשה תחמושת which Google translate renders as ‘dry ammunition’, but יבשה itself means ‘dry land’. Presumably it refers to ammunition used for land weapons. Also other (Hebrew) versions of the article, or different articles about the same press release, expand that category to ‘dry land weapons and ammunition’. So meaning I assume weapons for use by land armies other than those in separate categories like optics, air defense systems etc. [underline added] Interesting, with proper reference checks (underline in cite)–indeed, I found general contact info for [SIBAT](http://www.sibat.mod.gov.il/Pages/home.aspx), the issuing ministry, and when the mood moves me more I will write for the original report, and possibly its writer or translator (see below on that). The generic can of worms is well-stocked with assumptions about “machine translation” and here possibly the always amusing game of one translation (machine or otherwise) re-fed and translated back by that machine. But bear in mind: 1. The cite here is the Jerusalem Post, which publishes only in English. Any Hebrew manageable document is not machine translated there, of course, nor is presented on-line with a “translate” option. So other Hebrew-original pubs either took it from JPost (unlikely, since it was a widely released press plug by the ministry), or received their own report. 2. It is conceivable that the report/press release was actually written in English, perhaps with a weird usage of the word by the original author–or, translator, because obviously somewhere the Hebrew is used by defense trade accountants. (Hence the authority of contacting SIBAT.) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-dry-ammunition-in-a-defense-industry-breakdown-here-israel/813474/27 "2018-05-04T18:17:27Z")
.50 caliber machine guns are used on jeeps and ships, wet and dry. Where did I get a Hebrew font? ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-dry-ammunition-in-a-defense-industry-breakdown-here-israel/813474/28 "2018-05-04T18:25:51Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Interesting, OK on that all that except as I mentioned in both posts other articles written apparently based on the same report or press release give that category as ‘weapons and ammunition’, forgetting about ‘dry’ for a moment. ‘Dry weapons and ammunition’? I think it’s pretty obvious that’s a translation related mistake and means ‘dry land’ ie ‘land’ not ‘dry’. Maybe I’m not curious enough. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-dry-ammunition-in-a-defense-industry-breakdown-here-israel/813474/29 "2018-05-04T18:32:06Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > OK on that all that except as I mentioned in both posts other articles written apparently based on the same report or press release give that category as ‘weapons and ammunition’, forgetting about ‘dry’ for a moment. ‘Dry weapons and ammunition’? I think it’s pretty obvious that’s a translation related mistake and means ‘dry land’ ie ‘land’ not ‘dry’. Maybe I’m not curious enough. 🙂 That sounds likely. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-dry-ammunition-in-a-defense-industry-breakdown-here-israel/813474/30 "2018-05-04T20:03:40Z")
Yes, we need to find a link to the original report in the original language and formatting. Input from someone familiar with the terminology in question (e.g. the SIBAT PR department) should also quickly clear things up. [This](http://www.israeldefense.co.il/en/node/34050) English version has it as “land systems, ammunition and weapon stations”, and [this](https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-5249075,00.html) Hebrew article quotes it as “יבשה תחמושת ועמדות נשק”. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-dry-ammunition-in-a-defense-industry-breakdown-here-israel/813474/31 "2018-05-04T21:30:08Z")
Friends, Jew and Gentile alike, I bring you (and restate from suggestions above) the answer, dollars to donuts, and the end of a fun-game of low-level philology. It is, no more or less, “land.” The mistranslation is fascinating and actually predictable, if unfortunate glaring in the word appears correctly, more or less, in that it is in the right pew and church in Hebrew, but in English the right pew but the wrong church. First off, to think etymologically and common semantic definition of modern Hebrew you have to go to the videotape. And for here the exploration of the word transliterated “yabbasha” the [Strong Hebrew Concordance data](https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=H3004&ot=NASB&t=WLC#lexSearch) it, as well as translations galore in context, is recommended. It’s three-letter _root_ indeed signifies “dry.” But that’s what land is, and the description became the noun for that meaning. (There must be a word for this in linguistics.) However, in all the _Biblical_ uses, and translations, the word “land” is added–either in italics, like the King James and New King James, which is scrupulous about what is in the Hebrew and isn’t, and italicize everything which is a translator’s insert. Other Bibles go ahead and add “land” to what they see as an adjective (“dry”) without a noun (in English), even though the Hebrew word is that noun, semantically as well as syntactically. So Mr/Ms Defense Export person, goes ahead with what she knows from Hebrew, that “dry” is a perfectly acceptable usage which the rest of the English world (except King James, etc.) calls the noun “land,” chooses the wrong end of the translation stick. In almost all cases (? I haven’t checked each of its 14 appearances in the Bible) except, meaningfully, its first appearance, the word means simply “land” by implication because it is used when mention has just been made, or to make the point that please note this what we stand on or pour liquids into isn’t wet by nature\* like the other stuff we just mentioned. \* Does this sound familiar?: וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים יִקָּווּ הַמַּיִם מִתַּחַת הַשָּׁמַיִם אֶל־מָקֹום אֶחָד וְתֵרָאֶה הַיַּבָּשָׁה וַֽיְהִי־כֵֽן _dixit vero Deus congregentur aquae quae sub caelo sunt in locum unum et appareat arida factumque est ita [Vulgate]_ And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry _land_ appear: and it was so. [KJV, Gen 1:9] So, here, what God did was yes, create dryness as a noun, and only next verse calls it earth or land or something or other. Fair enough. But from then on it is always “land” (which is, as you will recall, not water.) How about this? כִּי בָא סוּס פַּרְעֹה בְּרִכְבֹּו וּבְפָרָשָׁיו בַּיָּם וַיָּשֶׁב יְהוָה עֲלֵהֶם אֶת־מֵי הַיָּם וּבְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל הָלְכוּ בַיַּבָּשָׁה בְּתֹוךְ הַיָּֽם _filii autem Israhel perrexerunt per medium sicci maris et aquae eis erant quasi pro muro a dextris et a sinistris_ For the horse of Pharaoh went in with his chariots and with his horsemen into the sea, and the LORD brought again the waters of the sea upon them; but the children of Israel went on dry _land_ in the midst of the sea.[KJV, Ex. 15:19] Our report writer or editor interestingly also followed St. Jerome, who for the Genesis verse above has “_arida_” (“Dry”/the noun), and later on, the stuff God gives them to escape the Egyptians is not even given a one-word noun of any kind (recall, the same one in Hebrew) but rephrases it to say that “water-lessening” took place and the Israelites were home-free. Good thing SIBAT didn’t go that translation route. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-dry-ammunition-in-a-defense-industry-breakdown-here-israel/813474/32 "2018-05-04T21:40:38Z")
CX: I truncated the Vulgate verse of the splitting of the sea, the phrase with the [not strictly appearing] dry land: > [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > How about this? > > כִּי בָא סוּס פַּרְעֹה בְּרִכְבֹּו וּבְפָרָשָׁיו בַּיָּם וַיָּשֶׁב יְהוָה עֲלֵהֶם אֶת־מֵי הַיָּם וּבְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל הָלְכוּ בַיַּבָּשָׁה בְּתֹוךְ הַיָּֽם > _ingressus est enim equus Pharao cum curribus et equitibus eius in mare et reduxit super eos Dominus aquas maris filii autem Israhel perrexerunt per medium sicci maris et aquae eis erant quasi pro muro a dextris et a sinistris_ [underline text inserted] > For the horse of Pharaoh went in with his chariots and with his horsemen into the sea, and the LORD brought again the waters of the sea upon them; but the children of Israel went on dry _land_ in the midst of the sea.[KJV, Ex. 15:19] > Our report writer or editor interestingly also followed St. Jerome, who for the Genesis verse above has “_arida_” (“Dry”/the noun), and later on, the stuff God gives them to escape the Egyptians is not even given a one-word noun of any kind (recall, the same one in Hebrew) but rephrases it to say that “water-lessening” took place and the Israelites were home-free. > > Good thing SIBAT didn’t go that translation route. ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-dry-ammunition-in-a-defense-industry-breakdown-here-israel/813474/33 "2018-05-06T12:17:46Z")
Just conjecture: Perhaps the “dry” measurement referred to in the OP relates to the actual measurement of the ammo itself, less any extraneous packing/shipping weight. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-dry-ammunition-in-a-defense-industry-breakdown-here-israel/813474/34 "2018-05-06T15:04:56Z")
> [@ZurBob](#): > > Just conjecture: Perhaps the “dry” measurement referred to in the OP relates to the actual measurement of the ammo itself, less any extraneous packing/shipping weight. :smack: That’s net weight (משקל נקי, i.e., “clean” weight, according to the Academy of the Hebrew Language web site); not sure in what languages net weight is “dry” weight, but Hebrew is not one of them. Also, the percentages in the OP refer to money, not weight. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-dry-ammunition-in-a-defense-industry-breakdown-here-israel/813474/35 "2018-05-06T16:55:27Z")
This thread went from a question about Israeli munitions to translating the Bible into or from Hebrew, or somesuch. I can’t tell. My head hurts, and I’m going to lay down. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-dry-ammunition-in-a-defense-industry-breakdown-here-israel/813474/36 "2018-05-06T17:11:37Z")
> [@Lizard](#): > > This thread went from a question about Israeli munitions to translating the Bible into or from Hebrew, or somesuch. I can’t tell. My head hurts, and I’m going to lay down. Unless you’re talking about putting your bullets on a shelf, you’re going to [grammar Nazi]…lie down.[/grammar Nazi] ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-dry-ammunition-in-a-defense-industry-breakdown-here-israel/813474/37 "2018-05-07T04:36:33Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Unless you’re talking about putting your bullets on a shelf, you’re going to [grammar Nazi]…lie down.[/grammar Nazi] I’ll not lie about my laying, be they eggs or bullets. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-dry-ammunition-in-a-defense-industry-breakdown-here-israel/813474/38 "2018-07-17T23:42:39Z")
Admittedly, even I find this hard to believe, but I revive this for related stupidity with yet another “wet ammunition” cognate in incomprehensible Israeli-English language media. The Times of Israel tells us: **[Amid technical woes, Iran security chief said to stand up Gaza crow](https://www.timesofisrael.com/iranian-chief-stands-up-gaza-crowd-amid-claims-of-israeli-technical-tampering/)d** _Wet Gunpowder gathering goes out with a whimper after Egypt reportedly tells Hamas leaders to stay away from the event_ OK, so I thought the headline writer was being ironic, but the story continues: …The shadowy Iranian officer had been expected to speak to the crowd at the Wet Gunpowder Festival via video conference from Tehran. The event was held simultaneously in Gaza and Tehran… Shortly after Gheybparvar concluded his remarks, which were largely inaudible due to connectivity issues between Tehran and Gaza, Al-Quds TV, one of a couple of Palestinian media outlets broadcasting the event, cut to the evening news… OK, so now we have a militaristic rally named “Wet Gunpowder,” with the added conundrum of some screwy translation from Arabic or Parsi? Or is the Mossad stealing their clouds and snow again and altered all auto-translation devices? Fun [footnote](https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/217500.html): …[The phrase alludes] to gunpowder which soldiers had to keep dry in order to be ready to fight when required. This advice reputedly originated with Oliver Cromwell during his campaign in Ireland. In Ballads of Ireland, 1856, Edward Hayes wrote: “There is a well-authenticated anecdote of Cromwell. On a certain occasion, when his troops were about crossing a river to attack the enemy, he concluded an address, couched in the usual fanatic terms in use among them, with these words - ‘put your trust in God; but mind to keep your powder dry’.” ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-dry-ammunition-in-a-defense-industry-breakdown-here-israel/813474/39 "2018-07-18T08:20:48Z")
The Wet Gunpowder Award is like the Golden Raspberry Award. It’s an Iranian mock-award that is given to someone foolish or hated or incompetent; someone who is against the Islamic Revolution, but is so clumsy and awkward that their actions ironically serve to advance the revolution. The Wet Gun Powder Festival would just be the event where such an award is presented. There is a wiki page with a picture of the award: [Wet Gunpowder Award - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_Gunpowder_Award) ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-dry-ammunition-in-a-defense-industry-breakdown-here-israel/813474/40 "2018-07-18T08:22:23Z")
And of course, this year’s 2018 Wet Gunpowder Award goes to President Trump. > **[2018 Wet Gunpowder Award](https://theiranproject.com/blog/tag/2018-wet-gunpowder-award/)** > > 2018 Wet Gunpowder Award, [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-dry-ammunition-in-a-defense-industry-breakdown-here-israel/813474.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-dry-ammunition-in-a-defense-industry-breakdown-here-israel/813474.md?page=3)