# What is going on in California (re: minimum wage)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 2, 2010, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292 "2010-07-02T10:57:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/21 "2010-07-02T19:25:49Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > I am. This is going to hurt. ☹ Are you on furloughs, also? Will they at least recind those if they’re going to bump you down to minimum? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/22 "2010-07-03T04:37:23Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Personally, I’m all about being paid for my efforts. On principle alone, I would not work in exchange for an IOU/voucher/whatever. Are people like me rare or does California have problems keeping employees through tough times? My mom is a CA state employee. She’s worked her job for 18 years, steadily moving up the ranks.She’s a diligent and hard worker without huge expectations- she’s happy going to work, getting her paycheck and saving for a modest but stable retirement. They are used to this sort of thing, but it does get to them. She’s not a villain and she doesn’t deserve to take the hit whenever the legislature can’t get it’s act together. “Get tough on state workers” is an easy sell. But really, she’s just an ordinary office worker whose financial life is being battered around to prove some kind of point. The furloughs have really been a hit to her- it took her years of slow small raises to get to her pay level, and a 14% drop wiped out her hard-earned “fun” money. But even more difficult for her is that they keep proposing more. There seems to be no limit to how much they can screw with their paychecks with pretty much no warning. I’m not sure if the minimum wage thing will affect her or not. I really hope not, since I’ve been abroad for four years and July is the first time in a long time I will get to see my family. We had planned some small trips- just camping and the like. I’m hoping we can still do that. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/23 "2010-07-03T05:20:13Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > Are you on furloughs, also? Will they at least recind those if they’re going to bump you down to minimum? Furloughs have been rescinded effective July 1, but my paycheck is going to be about $1200 pre-tax, and no one’s told me what’s happening with my paycheck deductions – I pull more than $1200 out each month for my 401k, and there’s still State/Federal taxes, SSI, Medicare, etc. I have no idea what my paycheck will be. I’m fortunate in that I have some savings to fall back on, but I know a **lot** of people who don’t. It’s going to be brutal. If this drags on for months, it will not surprise me at all if someone cracks and takes a shot at the folks in charge. Hell, folks have already tried it at the Pentagon and an IRS office ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/24 "2010-07-03T05:38:46Z")
California is in serious debt. It is also one of the highest taxed states. Cuts will have to be made. As the economy implodes they will have to make more cuts. I don’t think people realize how serious the situation is. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/25 "2010-07-03T06:03:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > California is in serious debt. It is also one of the highest taxed states. Cuts will have to be made. As the economy implodes they will have to make more cuts. I don’t think people realize how serious the situation is. Are you implying that cuts haven’t been made? The state workers on furlough would disagree with that statement. All the people who can’t get into state universities any more, and those in who can’t get classes, would also disagree. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/26 "2010-07-03T06:17:16Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > California is in serious debt. It is also one of the highest taxed states. Cuts will have to be made. As the economy implodes they will have to make more cuts. I don’t think people realize how serious the situation is. Cuts will have to be made and are being made. But it’s not cool to single out a fairly random group of people unrelated to the problem and put them through bizarre measures for the sake of headlines. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/27 "2010-07-03T06:21:20Z")
> [@Ridley's Shooting Party](#): > > Surely any rational form of government must recognize that passing a budget in a timely manner is of fundamental importance? Tell that to the [U.S. Federal Government](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20008456-503544.html): > [@](#): > > **Hoyer: No Budget Resolution This Year because of Deficit Concerns** > > Congress will not pass a budget resolution this year because the issue of the soaring national debt hangs over every policy debate in Washington, House Majority Steny Hoyer said today, and it will be impossible to pass a realistic long-term budget until the nation’s structural deficit is addressed. > > “Our problem is structural–the product of a generation’s worth of easy decisions,” Hoyer said at a discussion about the national deficit, hosted by the Third Way, a left-leaning, moderate think tank. First question: How could someone vote for all the spending that he’s voted on in the last two years come out and say that the deficit is so critical that the government can’t even pass a budget until it’s resolved? > [@](#): > > Hoyer said today that instead of passing a budget resolution, the House is working to adopt a budget enforcement resolution, which will call for even more spending cuts than the president’s budget. It will also, he said, reaffirm Congress’ commitment to PAYGO rules and endorse the goals of President Obama’s bipartisan deficit commission, an 18-member panel charged with creating a plan to bring down the deficit to 3 percent of the economy by 2015. Man, I’ll believe that when I see it. But who knows? Mayne the G20 convinced Obama that deficits really were a big damn deal. If they can actually get spending down to that level in four years, my hat’s off to them. > [@](#): > > “It isn’t possible to debate and pass a realistic, long-term budget until we’ve considered the bipartisan commission’s deficit-reduction plan, which is expected in December,” Hoyer said. “I believe that Congress must take up and vote on that plan.” It’s also very convenient that not passing a budget means that Congress doesn’ t have to ask CBO to re-score the deficit situation - right before an election. Because the numbers are not going to look good. Obama’s own huge deficit estimates were based on a rosy assumption of a “V” shaped recovery. Just about everyone else was more skeptical. Well, now that growth has stalled and there’s a risk of a double-dip, the deficit numbers are going to explode. Best to keep from peeking at that until after the election. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/28 "2010-07-03T06:23:50Z")
Sorry, I realize that was a bit of a hijack. So how does California get out of its jam? How does this end? With a complete shutdown of critical services, followed by a big-ass bailout from Washington? Or does the legislature actually do the work of figuring out how to get of its fiscal straightjacket? In other words, do they do their damned jobs? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/29 "2010-07-03T06:28:19Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Are you implying that cuts haven’t been made? The state workers on furlough would disagree with that statement. All the people who can’t get into state universities any more, and those in who can’t get classes, would also disagree. No, I’m not implying that. California debt has been in the news for years. As the economy worsens more cuts will be necessary. I’ve been unemployed for over 2 years so you don’t have to convince me it sucks. My state went from being one of the lowest taxed to the highest in my working lifetime and I’ve watched company after company move to another state. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/30 "2010-07-03T15:39:32Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > But it’s not cool to single out a fairly random group of people unrelated to the problem and put them through bizarre measures for the sake of headlines. That’s what gets me about this situation. I have fuck-all to do with passing a budget, yet I’m the one on the chopping block because the legislature can’t get their shit together. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/31 "2010-07-03T16:23:50Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > There’s total gridlock along party lines every year and the voters are some of the biggest idiots in the nation for putting up with it. New York hasn’t passed a budget, either, and they don’t even have the excuse of bipartisan gridlock. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/32 "2010-07-03T18:23:34Z")
According to [this](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_california_budget_minimum_wage) cutting state workers’ pay down to minimum wage might be harder then it sounds. Then again it could just be Controller Chiang dragging his feat and not wanting to implement Governor Schwarzenegger’s order. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/33 "2010-07-03T23:25:39Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Sorry, I realize that was a bit of a hijack. > > So how does California get out of its jam? How does this end? With a complete shutdown of critical services, followed by a big-ass bailout from Washington? Or does the legislature actually do the work of figuring out how to get of its fiscal straightjacket? In other words, do they do their damned jobs? Heh. Given term limits, and highly partisan internal politics, their jobs seem to be either getting reelected of moving on to the next higher branch. The few Republicans who made the compromise work last year got soundly reamed by their party. Plus, they can dump any hard decisions to the people via the proposition system, where it will no doubt get defeated while the legislators can wash their hands of the problem. I’m definitely not absolving Dems from guilt in this mess. The only way out is throwing everything out and starting from scratch. Cuts are not going to do it - they can fire all state workers and still have a deficit. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/34 "2010-07-04T15:26:54Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’m definitely not absolving Dems from guilt in this mess. And yet, both in the national and state level, all you do is whine about Republicans. Somehow, even with huge powers and majorities, Democrats Are Made Of Fail. Somehow, despite having been in numerous worse situations before, the Democrats can’t do anything because of the minority, who likewise did better when it was theit turn. It’s not hard to see why. When your practices are mostly about complaining and trying to spend money you don’t have on things you don’t need in order to buy votes, _eventually you run out of money_. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/35 "2010-07-04T15:35:53Z")
Practical question: could these salary cutting measures and IOUs every year not be taken as a case of constructive dismissal? Are state employees challenging these measures in the courts? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/36 "2010-07-04T15:56:40Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > No major arguement with you here - I just react to the implication from some anti-prop 13 people that we are undertaxed. Being anti-prop 13 doesn’t necessarily imply thinking we’re undertaxed. It means thinking that over the years the constitutional infractructure it put in place gradually and inevitably incentivized the state to gallop headlong into the fiscal slough we find ourselves in. Repealing Prop. 13 today would do nothing to get us out of this mess; what is needed is a time machine.\* Turns out Jerry Brown was right to oppose it, and I wonder what the hell he thinks he’s going to do about it when he’s put back in the governor’s office in the fall. \*Of course, since the 1978 voters wouldn’t have the benefit of 2010 hindsight, we’d all have to go… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/37 "2010-07-04T16:54:36Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Practical question: could these salary cutting measures and IOUs every year not be taken as a case of constructive dismissal? Are state employees challenging these measures in the courts? State and federal agencies have a degree of immunity to certain types of suit, typically including many employment-related suits. I don’t know about California law in this area, though. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/38 "2010-07-04T18:09:37Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Practical question: could these salary cutting measures and IOUs every year not be taken as a case of constructive dismissal? Are state employees challenging these measures in the courts? You could easily challenge your job out of existence. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/39 "2010-07-05T01:08:31Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > And yet, both in the national and state level, all you do is whine about Republicans. Somehow, even with huge powers and majorities, Democrats Are Made Of Fail. Somehow, despite having been in numerous worse situations before, the Democrats can’t do anything because of the minority, who likewise did better when it was theit turn. > > It’s not hard to see why. When your practices are mostly about complaining and trying to spend money you don’t have on things you don’t need in order to buy votes, _eventually you run out of money_. By minority you mean 1/3 who can defeat the wishes of the 2/3. And in California it is the legislature who spends money we don’t have, it is the people. 3 strikes are great, but it increased the costs of prisons tremendously. Did the people voting for it think about this? Not likely. Most ballot measures for big bond issues say that they won’t increase taxes. Not directly, no. The Republicans, btw, never have produced anything resembling a reasonable proposal to fix the problem. The Dems and our Republican governor have done a much better job. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/40 "2010-07-05T01:14:23Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Being anti-prop 13 doesn’t necessarily imply thinking we’re undertaxed. It means thinking that over the years the constitutional infractructure it put in place gradually and inevitably incentivized the state to gallop headlong into the fiscal slough we find ourselves in. Repealing Prop. 13 today would do nothing to get us out of this mess; what is needed is a time machine.\* I confess to being undertaxed in terms of property tax - and over taxed in terms of sales tax, though I benefit from it being regressive. What we really need are more stable taxes. And another problem is that school funding formulas were set decades ago and are impossible to change. Though I pay the same property tax rate as everyone else, my district gets less money per kid than a district over the hill, since we were pretty rural back when the rates were set. It will never change, since LA does well, and they have the votes. Yet another reason why the whole system needs to be thrown out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292.md?page=3)