# What is going on in California (re: minimum wage)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 2, 2010, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292 "2010-07-02T10:57:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/41 "2010-07-05T02:10:43Z")
Don’t forget about underemployment. I am not out of work, but rarely do I work 40 hours. I can only think of three weeks in the last year where I worked 40 hours. Most of the time I lose a day or two days. In June I only worked the equivilent of 7 days the whole month. Often I’d show up work an hour and be sent home. So the situation isn’t as good as it seems. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/42 "2010-07-05T02:59:34Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I confess to being undertaxed in terms of property tax - and over taxed in terms of sales tax, though I benefit from it being regressive. What we really need are more stable taxes. And another problem is that school funding formulas were set decades ago and are impossible to change. Though I pay the same property tax rate as everyone else, my district gets less money per kid than a district over the hill, since we were pretty rural back when the rates were set. It will never change, since LA does well, and they have the votes. > > Yet another reason why the whole system needs to be thrown out. If only. Me, I think I’ll mold my solution around winning the lottery and ditching the whole shooting match. I’ll buy you a pony on my way out, though, since you seem like the wishing kind. In the meantime, of course, my voting will reflect my agreement with your premise that we need to discard the current system, and institute a new one. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/43 "2010-07-05T04:21:17Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > If only. Me, I think I’ll mold my solution around winning the lottery and ditching the whole shooting match. I’ll buy you a pony on my way out, though, since you seem like the wishing kind. > > In the meantime, of course, my voting will reflect my agreement with your premise that we need to discard the current system, and institute a new one. Soon after I retire, I’d getting out of here and moving to a sane state - like New Jersey. 😃 We sent our kids out of state for college. Cost more, but it was well worth it, given how the UC system has been trashed. And saying everything should be thrown out is not the same as thinking it will be. As long as Californians both complain about taxes being too high and also funding for schools and prisons not being adequate, we’ll never solve the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/44 "2010-07-05T04:22:57Z")
I left the state (and the country). There were other reasons, but the implosion of the state was certainly a major factor. I was a lecturer in the CSU system, and I was about to be laid off (or more realistically, cut from 100% time to 40% time). The state’s educational system is absolutely terrible, which produces voters who are susceptible to the glibly simplistic soundbites about BAAAAAD taxes. The state has been juggling resources to stay afloat for a long time now, since Prop. 13, and as they run out of options they get increasingly desperate. It looks like the state controller is going to block the implementation of the minimum wage gimmick. I predict a federal bailout in the next two or three years. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/45 "2010-07-05T07:32:47Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > How can the state government not be able to pass a budget and still remain in power? _Surely_ any rational form of government must recognize that passing a budget in a timely manner is of fundamental importance? You’re thinking of a system of responsible, parliamentary government. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/46 "2010-07-07T03:21:39Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I think Whitman would be equally ineffective. I am afraid you are right. And I remember what it was like when Jerry Brown was gov. This time I am almost afraid to vote. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/47 "2010-07-07T03:30:24Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I know that the state was giving out IOU’s for more than a month last year before a budget deal was finally reached, but I’m not aware that it ever happened before that. Are you sure it’s a repeated thing? (You may be right. I haven’t paid much attention to California politics since I left the state in '04.) > > m. I worked for the state in 1974 to 1979. Several years we got what were called “pay warrents” rather than pay checks. Banks could refuse to honor them because they were only a promise to pay and make them good. they wre not called IOU’s but they were in fact just that. Jerry Brown was the gov. then. My wife still likes to give me a bad time because I voted for him once only to regret it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/48 "2010-07-07T05:14:31Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I left the state (and the country). There were other reasons, but the implosion of the state was certainly a major factor. I was a lecturer in the CSU system, and I was about to be laid off (or more realistically, cut from 100% time to 40% time). The state’s educational system is absolutely terrible, which produces voters who are susceptible to the glibly simplistic soundbites about BAAAAAD taxes. The state has been juggling resources to stay afloat for a long time now, since Prop. 13, and as they run out of options they get increasingly desperate. It looks like the state controller is going to block the implementation of the minimum wage gimmick. I predict a federal bailout in the next two or three years. with a 14 trillion dollar deficit I don’t see the Federal Government writing the check. If by BAAAAAAD taxes you mean high taxes the sound bite was probably heard loudest by businesses that could operate in states with cheaper tax rates. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/49 "2010-07-07T05:24:03Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > with a 14 trillion dollar deficit I don’t see the Federal Government writing the check. If by BAAAAAAD taxes you mean high taxes the sound bite was probably heard loudest by businesses that could operate in states with cheaper tax rates. I meant that all taxes were inherently bad, not that taxes were high. People genuinely didn’t seem to understand that at least some of their taxes were used for the public good. Regarding your first point, I don’t know… isn’t California “too big to fail” ? I’m not saying I’m right, just that I don’t really understand the logistics of who gets propped up and who doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/50 "2010-07-07T05:32:23Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I meant that all taxes were inherently bad, not that taxes were high. People genuinely didn’t seem to understand that at least some of their taxes were used for the public good. > > Regarding your first point, I don’t know… isn’t California “too big to fail” ? I’m not saying I’m right, just that I don’t really understand the logistics of who gets propped up and who doesn’t. Yes, California falls into the “too big to fail” but the United States is in danger of being downgraded in the credit market. There is a growing call to dump the dollar as a world standard. Just as Greece isn’t the only European country in danger, California is not the only state that could default. In order to rob Peter to pay Paul we have to get additional financing from countries like China. Now we’re pushing our credit rating lower… it’s a self feeding black hole of debt that could consume us all. I’ve said it before, people don’t understand how tenuous the situation is in the United States as well as Europe. It wouldn’t take much for World markets to collapse overnight. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/51 "2010-07-07T08:07:12Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > You’re thinking of a system of responsible, parliamentary government. 😉 Yeah. But many of the differences between the American systems, at the Federal and State level, and the Westminster system seem neither here nor there. Apart from this one. It blows my mind that there’s a system of government where there’s no requirement that a budget will be passed on time, or the government falls. Forcing state workers to work on the promise of an IOU is the biggest WTF ever! ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/52 "2010-07-07T10:07:43Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Soon after I retire, I’d getting out of here and moving to a sane state - like New Jersey. 😃 We sent our kids out of state for college. Cost more, but it was well worth it, given how the UC system has been trashed. > > And saying everything should be thrown out is not the same as thinking it will be. As long as Californians both complain about taxes being too high and also funding for schools and prisons not being adequate, we’ll never solve the problem. There’s also a human capital issue. > [@](#): > > The unhappy picture in Los Angeles is replicated to one degree or another across much of California and is taking a huge toll on the state’s economic competitiveness and long-term prospects. California’s educational system, once easily the best in the country, is today mired in mediocrity near the bottom among the 50 states as judged by National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) tests in math, science, reading, and writing. And for the first time in its history, California is experiencing an increase in adult illiteracy. In 2003, it had the highest adult illiteracy in the United States, 23 percent nearly 50 percent higher than a decade earlier. In some counties (Imperial at 41 percent, Los Angeles at 33 percent) illiteracy approaches sub-Saharan levels… > > In short, we are witnessing a highly advanced and prosperous state, long endowed with superior human capital, turning into the exact opposite in just one generation. What can be done to stop this race to the bottom? The answer is simple: California and Washington need to enforce existing immigration law. Unfortunately, it is difficult to convince the public that this is necessary, so deeply entrenched are myths about illegal immigration… > > Perhaps the most disingenuous myth about illegal immigrants is that they do not impose any cost on society. The reality is that even those who work and half do not, according to the Pew Hispanic Center cannot subsist on the wages they receive and depend on public assistance to a large degree. Research on Los Angeles immigrants by Harvard University scholar George J. Borjas shows that 40.1 percent of immigrant families with non-citizen heads of household receive welfare, compared with 12.7 percent of households with native-born heads. Illegal immigrants also increase public expenditures on health care, education, and prisons. In California today, illegal immigrants’ cost to the taxpayer is estimated to be $13 billion half the state’s budget deficit. [http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112167023](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112167023) ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/53 "2010-07-07T16:52:05Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > Don’t forget about underemployment. I am not out of work, but rarely do I work 40 hours. I can only think of three weeks in the last year where I worked 40 hours. Most of the time I lose a day or two days. In June I only worked the equivilent of 7 days the whole month. Often I’d show up work an hour and be sent home. > > So the situation isn’t as good as it seems. I assume you are in CA so just as a piece of advice. Generally labor law in CA provides that hourly employees who show up for their scheduled time and are sent home early receive “[reporting time](http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/FAQ_ReportingTimePay.htm)” pay. This is a minimum of 2 hours and a maximum of 4, depending on your scheduled shift (must have scheduled shift of at least 2 hours to apply). There are other exceptions as to the cause of having to send you home early but it doesn’t sound like this is the case in your situation. Many employers do not do this properly and if so there is a potential cause of action or they may remedy it if notified. > [@Capt. Ridley's Shooting Party](#): > > It blows my mind that there’s a system of government where there’s no requirement that a budget will be passed on time, or the government falls. Actually, California has a state constitutional requirement that a balanced budget [be passed, and timely](http://www.dof.ca.gov/fisa/bag/process.htm) (It’s June 15 of each year). They just miss the deadline, and [more so recently](http://www.dof.ca.gov/budgeting/budget_faqs/information/documents/CHART-p.pdf) it seems. Even granting the fact that CA has a line item veto, given that our budget is in the many billions, [not much gets vetoed](http://www.dof.ca.gov/budgeting/budget_faqs/documents/CHART-P1.pdf) unfortunately. * * * CA has a spending problem. Both through the legislature and the ballot system. I’d support a constitutional convention but I doubt it would ever happen. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292/54 "2010-07-08T02:19:07Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Practical question: could these salary cutting measures and IOUs every year not be taken as a case of constructive dismissal? Are state employees challenging these measures in the courts? I don’t know about California specifically, but here (Georgia, and I suspect many other states), constructive dismissal in and of itself is not illegal. It is only illegal if done to effect a dismissal that would be illegal for other reasons, e.g. to get rid of a member of a protected class (race, sex, age, religion and some other reasons, often varying by state) or to violate some other contract. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-going-on-in-california-re-minimum-wage/545292.md?page=2)