# What is "good" rap? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 23, 2004, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-good-rap/265588 "2004-09-23T00:46:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![NewHeart\_Male](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@NewHeart\_Male](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NewHeart_Male)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-good-rap/265588/1 "2004-09-23T00:46:31Z")
OK, now usually when I like music, I tend to go for what is in my gut - I like what I like, and I don’t what I don’t. My taste in music is varied and eclectic. So I can listen to some forms of rap and like it - and others that I don’t. But some people are obviously more “in the know” than I clearly am in terms of rap music. I’ve often heard the sentiment that much of the commercialised drivel that I see on MTV is not _real_ (“reeeel”) rap, but that the stuff underground’s the good shite. Now personally, a lot of the rap on MTV/Music Channel I consider crap anyway, but there can be notable exceptions. \*Still Dre Forgot about Dre My Name is…\* etc. This stuff I DO like the sound of. I’ve heard some “hardcore oldies” from the likes of NWA (_Straight outta Compton_) - but to be honest it didn’t take. A couple of others I liked but don’t know the names of. So what exactly differentiates (technicalities-wise) “good” rap from “bad” rap? The way it’s mixed? The vocals (I don’t really think this makes _that_ much of a difference, though I’m open to persuasion)? And start listing off songs and groups that fall into both categories. Bout time you boyz taut me a ting or 2. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-good-rap/265588/2 "2004-09-23T01:18:38Z")
“If it sounds good and feels good, then it IS good!”. -Duke Ellington ---
**Author:** ![ThatGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e5b9ba/32.png) [@ThatGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThatGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-good-rap/265588/3 "2004-09-23T01:23:41Z")
Personally i consider “good rap” to be somewhat intelligent and and make good statements about the urban sub culture or lifestyle. Examples would be Eminem and Dr Dre…“bad” rap is a song that obviously took no effort or talent to produce, rather it’s a bunch of cliches and vulgarity/violence strung together with no redeeming value or point other than just to be vulgar/violent. Rap can be art just like any other musical genre…a large percentage of it just turns out to be drivel. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-good-rap/265588/4 "2004-09-23T01:30:33Z")
Isn’t the question as justifiably asked about all music - i.e., What makes Good Music Good? From that standpoint - that is in the ear of the beholder, but it has to do with whether the songs are well-written musically and lyrically, and are delivered in a way that affects you - could be delivered honestly, could be delivered arrogantly, could be delivered intelligently, etc… - but you are moved by listening. Lots of rap on MTV is the equivalent of boy band crap - oooo, look at my bling, my hoes, my ride - whatever. Rap is about rhyme, flow, beats and saying something. Someone like Snoop has such an amazing delivery that he can handle simple-ass songs like “Beautiful” and keep my attention. Others, like 50 Cent, had great stuff on their mix CDs, but the stuff I have seen on MTV seems kinda over - I’m just sayin… Missy Elliot is brilliant - amazing beats, delivery, flow, lyrically interesting and innovative. She has it all, to my mind… Eminem is for real, too. But for my money, you will never get better than Public Enemy. It Takes a Nation Of Millions is pretty much it. I love Run DMC, but Chuck D is it. ---
**Author:** ![audiobottle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc8723/32.png) [@audiobottle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/audiobottle)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-good-rap/265588/5 "2004-09-23T01:34:27Z")
I used to love listening to Dre back in the day, but I got turned off rap by so many of the current artists who all seem to rap about the same thing. In my mind, two things define rap. One, does it have some sort of message other than dropping as many brand names as humanly possible? Two, does it have a good flow/rhythm? The second one is really just as important as the first. Groups I’ve found that fall into these categories have been Diggable Planets, Tribe, J-5, Kanye West, Talib Kwali, Mos Def… As much as I dislike Eminem the person, he raps very well in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![audiobottle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc8723/32.png) [@audiobottle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/audiobottle)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-good-rap/265588/6 "2004-09-23T01:36:14Z")
Holy crap, I completely forgot about Missy Elliot. She’s got some sweet, sweet delivery. As does Snoop as the above poster mentioned. I really like his new song, I think it’s called “Drop it like it’s Hot.” Very minimalist. ---
**Author:** ![The\_world\_s\_most\_deadliest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@The\_world\_s\_most\_deadliest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_world_s_most_deadliest)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-good-rap/265588/7 "2004-09-23T01:39:22Z")
Its mostly personal opinion, I’d imagine. I like rap that has at least one of the following: 1. Intelligent lyrics or wordplay (Jay-Z, The Roots, early Meth, et.al) 2. Technical skill (I like Twista & Eminem in this category) 3. Unique or really catchy vocal stylings (Snoop, B Real) Barring those three, it had better have a REALLY catchy hook. ---
**Author:** ![Gadfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gadfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadfly)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-good-rap/265588/8 "2004-09-23T03:16:59Z")
Check out: Del tha Funkee Homosapien Deltron 3030 Madvillain Chali 2na K-OS Dr. Octagon ---
**Author:** ![TastesLikeBurning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@TastesLikeBurning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TastesLikeBurning)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-good-rap/265588/9 "2004-09-23T09:19:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Gadfly > > Check out: > > Del tha Funkee Homosapien > > Deltron 3030 > > Madvillain > > Chali 2na > > K-OS > > Dr. Octagon Chali 2na of course being one member of the brilliant Jurassic 5 (if you get the chance to see them perform live, DO IT!). I’ll second Deltron 3030 as well. The two groups/artists I’ve just mentioned are great IMO because they have kick-arse style and hooks, and aren’t _poseurs_. ---
**Author:** ![NewHeart\_Male](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@NewHeart\_Male](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NewHeart_Male)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-good-rap/265588/10 "2004-09-23T21:48:47Z")
I check some of these out and get back 2 yas all. ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-good-rap/265588/11 "2004-09-23T21:56:34Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > But for my money, you will never get better than Public Enemy. Exactly what I would have posted. The content, the strength, the voice… ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-good-rap/265588/12 "2004-09-23T22:41:07Z")
If it’s not played at 10,000 decibels and not full of filth, some of it’s really not too bad. How’s that for an old country boy? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Live\_Better\_Electrically](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/46a35a/32.png) [@Live\_Better\_Electrically](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Live_Better_Electrically)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-good-rap/265588/13 "2004-09-23T23:52:46Z")
It’s a matter of taste, I’m sure. Rap emphasizes rhythm, whereas I gravitate toward melody, so I tend to like what I perceive as the more melodic forms: Old School and “alternative” rap like Sugarhill Gang, Aceyalone, the Pharcyde, De La Soul, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-good-rap/265588/14 "2004-09-24T11:38:32Z")
What is good rap? An oxymoron. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-good-rap/265588/15 "2004-09-24T12:05:10Z")
> [@Middlecase](#): > > What is good rap? An oxymoron. Oooooo, aren’t you special. Go away, troll. You don’t like the music, don’t contribute to the thread. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-good-rap/265588/16 "2004-09-24T12:31:08Z")
> [@Middlecase](#): > > What is good rap? An oxymoron. The only good rap is a dead rap. **Middlecase** jumps on horse, rides off into the sunset. Actually, not a rap lover myself but I was interested enough to come here to see what others like. Out of all the pop music rap seems to me to be the farthest removed from traditional blues yet there’s a link there somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-good-rap/265588/17 "2004-09-24T14:50:45Z")
> [@Middlecase](#): > > What is good rap? An oxymoron. Unless it’s performed by a mime artist! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-good-rap/265588/18 "2004-09-24T15:20:25Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Out of all the pop music rap seems to me to be the farthest removed from traditional blues yet there’s a link there somewhere. And that’s why so many people claim that it’s not music. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-good-rap/265588/19 "2004-09-24T15:27:59Z")
Atmosphere Sage Francis South Park Mexican Bone Thugs 'n Harmony DMX Everlast Nas These are all good rap artists who all have something to say. Anyone who would say something like… > [@Middlecase](#): > > What is good rap? An oxymoron. …just hasn’t been exposed to the good stuff yet. He’s ignorant, that’s all. Now, if he is presented with a list of good rap and ignores it, then he is willfully ignorant. Not much that can be done about that, is there? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-good-rap/265588/20 "2004-09-25T01:41:37Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Atmosphere > Sage Francis > South Park Mexican > Bone Thugs 'n Harmony > DMX > Everlast > Nas > > These are all good rap artists who all have something to say. Anyone who would say something like… > > …just hasn’t been exposed to the good stuff yet. He’s ignorant, that’s all. Now, if he is presented with a list of good rap and ignores it, then he is willfully ignorant. Not much that can be done about that, is there? Perhaps you haven’t noticed a flaw in your argument. Is something good just because you say it is? That sounds rather conceited to me. Now if you are shown the opposing opinions of others, and merely insult them, then you are rude and conceited. Not much that can be done about that, is there? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-good-rap/265588.md?page=2)