# What is hate speech? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 6, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-hate-speech/687838 "2014-05-06T21:03:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-hate-speech/687838/21 "2014-05-07T07:25:41Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > If Zebra is familiar with the [Trail of Tears](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears), methinks he owes an apology. If he is not, he has much in common with much of America. I seriously doubt Zebra thinks he owes an apology any more than Helen Thomas thought she owed and apology to Jews who were upset when she suggested that they “go home”. The difference of course is that Helen Thomas was rather obviously senile whereas the same is not clear about Zebra, though I’d be genuinely stunned if Zebra has achieved 1/100th the accomplishments of Thomas. FWIW, none of what I’ve typed should be inferred as a criticism of Idle Thoughts for not giving out something harsher than a mod note to Zebra’s initial post. He/she had to make a tough call and I think probably on balance made the right one. As for Jim, look I’d like to feel that I have some idea how you feel since I’m not white either, but unfortunately all I can say is you live in a society where it nobody would dare name a team the New York Niggers or the Jersey City Jewboys, but calling a team the Washington Redskins is still allowed. Whatever crap I’ve had to put up with, I know that I’ll never have to deal with hearing about a minor league baseball team named the Rochester Ragheads or people laughing at me or rolling their eyes and whining about “PC bullshit” were I to complain about said team. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-hate-speech/687838/22 "2014-05-07T07:44:23Z")
Thanks, **Ibn**. You’re a good man. Please be careful and don’t get yourself in trouble on my account, though. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-hate-speech/687838/23 "2014-05-07T08:40:16Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > Thanks, **Ibn**. You’re a good man. Please be careful and don’t get yourself in trouble on my account, though. Thank you for the compliment. I’ve said all I think I need to say on this thread and I’m not worried. Lots of people disagree with my arguments but that’s not against the rules and those who’ve disagreed have made sensible arguments against. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-hate-speech/687838/24 "2014-05-07T11:02:20Z")
Speaking both as a moderator and (on a personal level) as a Jew: People make jokes about ethnicities/religions/nationalities all the time. “A Priest, a Minister, and a rabbi walk into a bar…” kind of thing. They’re usually in excruciatingly poor taste, they’re often racist (or whatever), they cause me to cringe at the first line. But that’s not hate speech. That may reflect vestiges of racism, but again, racism alone is not the same as hate speech. Racism is not against our rules: it is a political/personal opinion that the overwhelming majority of us consider wrong in many, many, ways, but it’s an opinion. We don’t ban people for having an opinion or belief, however wrong-headed or vile we may consider it. (We even allow people to say they like STAR WARS EPISODE 1. 😉 Hate speech is a different level entirely, and that _is_ forbidden. Now, I grant you, we don’t have a clear definition. It’s not black/white, it’s degrees. There’s stuff at one end (“Kill the damn Norwegians!”) that’s clearly hate speech. There’s stuff at the other end (“A Norwegian and a Swede and a Dane walk into a bar…”) that’s clearly not. There’s stuff in the middle where we have to make a call on the individual situation. Saying that “Oklahoma is a wonderful place and your group should leave” would be hate speech. Saying that “Oklahoma is a terrible place, why does your group want to stay there?” seems to me to be more anti-Oklahoma. And, yes, there’s certainly a possibly condescending attitude in a term like “you folk.” I do understand and empathize with the sorrowful history and current plight of native Americans. I do understand sensitivity to offhand ethnic/etc comments (not even slurs.) And it’s good to bring such things to people’s attention, but it’s also good not to get too overwrought about them. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-hate-speech/687838/25 "2014-05-07T12:48:13Z")
I don’t see the whole “joke” as hate speech, but if I were a mod, I’d mod him just for the “you folks” phrasing. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-hate-speech/687838/26 "2014-05-07T12:56:28Z")
Just so long as we agree that it is OK to insult a particular U.S. state. It would be ludicrous if referring to “Jersey drivers” was labeled “hate speech”. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-hate-speech/687838/27 "2014-05-07T15:26:22Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I don’t see the whole “joke” as hate speech, but if I were a mod, I’d mod him just for the “you folks” phrasing. Would you mod this statement? “I love this board and the posters. The mods are pretty cool too. You folks are great.” ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-hate-speech/687838/28 "2014-05-07T17:30:12Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Would you mod this statement? > > “I love this board and the posters. The mods are pretty cool too. You folks are great.” I’d mod _you_ on account of “Better safe than forever regret you wasted a golden opportunity.” ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-hate-speech/687838/29 "2014-05-07T17:36:52Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Would you mod this statement? > > “I love this board and the posters. The mods are pretty cool too. You folks are great.” Been holding that one back for a while, have you? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-hate-speech/687838/30 "2014-05-07T18:10:33Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Would you mod this statement? > > “I love this board and the posters. The mods are pretty cool too. You folks are great.” Nope. But that’s because I can tell the difference between “you folks = minority group” and “you folks = not a minority group” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-hate-speech/687838/31 "2014-05-07T18:13:31Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Would you mod this statement? > > “I love this board and the posters. The mods are pretty cool too. You folks are great.” Context, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-hate-speech/687838/32 "2014-05-08T01:56:15Z")
Do you know who else wanted to restrict other people’s speech? ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-hate-speech/687838/33 "2014-05-08T04:00:48Z")
yeah, Marley23, but we’re not supposed to bring that up anymore. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-hate-speech/687838/34 "2014-05-08T06:57:31Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Do you know who else wanted to restrict other people’s speech? I can do this. I can do this. Let me see, let me see … Uh, uh, uh … No hints! Uhm, begins with … begins with uhm, Char, uh Charl, Charl, Charlie, uh Charlie Chap, Chap, Chap, Chapil, Charlie Chapl … No! No! That’s not it. That’s not it!! That’s not my guess! My guess is … My guess is … is … **I got it! _I got it!!!_** Your real name is Godwin and the correct answer is Adolf “Grubenstein” Hitler!! Whadda I win? Whadda I win? Oh, really? Tell ya what. You keep the car and I’ll take the beautiful model. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-hate-speech/687838/35 "2014-05-08T08:21:56Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Do you know who else wanted to restrict other people’s speech? [Jesus?](http://biblehub.com/matthew/6-6.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-hate-speech/687838/36 "2014-05-08T15:15:42Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Do you know who else wanted to restrict other people’s speech? The owner of The Ball Gag Emporium, over on Main? ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-hate-speech/687838/37 "2014-05-08T15:31:36Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > It would be ludicrous if referring to “Jersey drivers” was labeled “hate speech”. True. That would be more of a “jealously speech” kind of thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-hate-speech/687838.md?page=1)