# What is Heaven? Do you really want to go? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2000, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-heaven-do-you-really-want-to-go/40213 "2000-11-08T00:44:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2000, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-heaven-do-you-really-want-to-go/40213/21 "2000-11-13T00:47:50Z")
Heaven is the place where you want to be. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![jb\_farley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9d8465/32.png) [@jb\_farley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jb_farley)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2000, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-heaven-do-you-really-want-to-go/40213/22 "2000-11-14T00:58:35Z")
Lately, Iā€™ve had the sneaking suspicion that weā€™ve misunderstood the whole ā€œHeaven/Hellā€ thing. What if: Heaven is the place for those who, for lack of a better term, are the ā€œcorny religiousā€. You know, the teens in the gospel rock band, or that guy in your neighborhood who hates halloween. Basically, your Flanderses. They love it up there. Constant chorals of Kumbayah (sp?) and weenie roasts for Jesus. Unfortunately (or fortunately) there is no hell. Everybody goes up to heaven. But really, if youā€™ve spent your whole life as a badass rocknroller who mainlines Jack and cokes, who thinks Parousia is a former soviet republic, and wgo has a nice working knowledge of Aliester Crowley, can you really enjoy such a heaven? People, become a corny christian, if only to make your afterlife somewhat endurable. And thatā€™s my 2/10ths of a cent. jb ---
**Author:** ![Guy\_Incognito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guy_incognito/32/3920_2.png) [@Guy\_Incognito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guy_Incognito)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2000, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-heaven-do-you-really-want-to-go/40213/23 "2000-11-14T03:29:23Z")
Not being a very religious person, I have my doubts about the existence of a ā€œheavenā€, but it would be wonderful if there was. I think that heaven would be whatever you wanted it to be. I picture it as infinite experiences stretched across all of eternity. Fly like a bird, watch galaxies collide, view all of history at your leisure, and know that everyone that you loved and who loved you are with you once again. You would understand your enemies and learn that they were not so different from you once, and gather peace in the knowledge that they now understand you as well. I also understand that I am probably totally wrong about all of the aboveā€“but itā€™s nice to dream about once in awhile. ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2000, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-heaven-do-you-really-want-to-go/40213/24 "2000-11-14T05:25:10Z")
ā€œIā€™d rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints. The sinners are much more fun.ā€ --Billy Joel, Only The Good Die Young ---
**Author:** ![ChrisM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@ChrisM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisM)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2000, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-heaven-do-you-really-want-to-go/40213/25 "2000-11-14T06:09:56Z")
I donā€™t know if anyone else has seen the Japanese movie ā€œAfter Lifeā€ by Kore-eda, but I thought that was a nice idea for the afterlife. When you die, you appear in this building, where the helpful staff give you a week to choose a single memory from your life. Then, you spend eternity in that memory, experiencing what would (presumably) be the happiest or most significant moment of your life. ---
**Author:** ![MetropoChris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@MetropoChris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MetropoChris)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2000, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-heaven-do-you-really-want-to-go/40213/26 "2000-11-14T06:23:28Z")
I think were missing the point of my OP. A great memory eternalyā€¦ Thinkn of the logistics of such an eternal loop. I know it was just a movie and you didnt say you buy the idea so this isnt direced at you. Many of us think life is short, and many of us, like myself, think it is way too long. To expearience anything **forever** is way too long. Its bad enough in our 80+ years of life we think we have a concept of what _ā€œour whole lifeā€_ means entirely. (ie: marrage, carrer choice, etcā€¦) What im saying is that nothing we can comprihend will make us happy **forever**. Heaven seems like a place that is never thought of **realisticaly** ā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2000, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-heaven-do-you-really-want-to-go/40213/27 "2000-11-15T00:18:34Z")
Maybe its just a figure of speech, that weā€™ve all begun to take too seriouslyā€¦I mean, why should we have to sacrifice life to get it? ---
**Author:** ![SSgtBaloo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac91a4/32.png) [@SSgtBaloo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SSgtBaloo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2000, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-heaven-do-you-really-want-to-go/40213/28 "2000-11-15T01:38:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zoggie \* > \*\*I mean, why should we have to sacrifice life to get it? \*\* Or even if you donā€™t get it. Life is a limited-time-offer. Everybody dies eventually. So what sacrifice are you talking about anyway? ~~Baloo ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2000, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-heaven-do-you-really-want-to-go/40213/29 "2000-11-15T22:10:53Z")
In heaven, there can be **NO FREE WILL**. According to conventional Christian doctrine, free will carries with it the capacity for sin. Everybody who _can_ sin eventually _will_ sin. Yet, heaven is supposed to be completely _without_ sin. The only way that heaven could be sin-free would be if its inhabitants had no free will. Q.E.D. ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2000, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-heaven-do-you-really-want-to-go/40213/30 "2000-11-15T22:31:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > Everybody who _can_ sin eventually _will_ sin. Wrong. > [@](#): > > Yet, heaven is supposed to be completely _without_ sin. The only way that heaven could be sin-free would be if its inhabitants had no free will. Q.E.D. Oh man. How come the arguments with the thinnest logic always end with QED? You can have free will and just not sin. What possible sin could you even commit after you are dead? Theft? There is nothing to steal. Murder? No more available than suicide at that point. Etc. Cetaintly a completely unencumbered soul would have a rather dull existence. But, hey, if you donā€™t like the afterlife, donā€™t die. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2000, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-heaven-do-you-really-want-to-go/40213/31 "2000-11-16T00:06:08Z")
How about blasphemy? I can blaspheme after Iā€™m dead, canā€™t I? Remember, according to Christian tradition, heaven is gonna be filled with all kinds of low-lifes who got into heaven just because they believed in Jesus as their savior. They didnā€™t stop sinning after they ā€œfound Jesusā€ while they were still alive, did they? What makes you think theyā€™re gonna stop sinning once theyā€™re dead? **Unless they have no free will?!** Oh, and: QED. šŸ˜› ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2000, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-heaven-do-you-really-want-to-go/40213/32 "2000-11-18T21:41:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\*How about blasphemy? I can blaspheme after Iā€™m dead, canā€™t I? > > Remember, according to Christian tradition, heaven is gonna be filled with all kinds of low-lifes who got into heaven just because they believed in Jesus as their savior. They didnā€™t stop sinning after they ā€œfound Jesusā€ while they were still alive, did they? What makes you think theyā€™re gonna stop sinning once theyā€™re dead? **Unless they have no free will?!** > > Oh, and: QED. šŸ˜› \*\* What if one is not Christian, what happens then? For one who does not believe in the Christian god, is that blasphemous? And what kind of blasphemy are you talking about? Andā€¦about this not having free willā€¦its kind of scary. If, that is, you simply do as you are told and are always happy. Sort of a negative utopia. Like in that book This Perfect Day. I mean, can you be happy if youā€™re forced to feel that way? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2000, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-heaven-do-you-really-want-to-go/40213/33 "2000-11-18T21:55:49Z")
Donā€™t know much about theology, but to me Heaven would be: An isolated house in a pretty woods A hot tub containg Cindy Crawford, Sherilynn Fenn and myself Jimi Hendrix, Billie Holiday and Duke Ellington on the stereo A well-stocked bar A hookah containing some Columbian gold I once smoked in 1978. P.S. Polycarp, I would venture to guess that Robert A. Heinlein, Spider Robinson and Arthur C. Clarke (or L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt) (or Lord Dunsany) are among your favorite authors. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2000, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-heaven-do-you-really-want-to-go/40213/34 "2000-11-19T05:12:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MetropoChris \* > \*\*I think were missing the point of my OP. > > A great memory eternalyā€¦ Thinkn of the logistics of such an eternal loop. I know it was just a movie and you didnt say you buy the idea so this isnt direced at you. Many of us think life is short, and many of us, like myself, think it is way too long. To expearience anything **forever** is way too long. Its bad enough in our 80+ years of life we think we have a concept of what _ā€œour whole lifeā€_ means entirely. (ie: marrage, carrer choice, etcā€¦) What im saying is that nothing we can comprihend will make us happy **forever**. Heaven seems like a place that is never thought of **realisticaly** ā€¦ \*\* I cannot believe the direction this discussion has taken. Letā€™s assume that a deific power exists somewhat along the lines of the Judeo-Christian-Muslim God and allows people into Heaven. Works for me. If youā€™re in heaven, **you are no longer limited by the constraints of the material world.** Concepts like boredom, physical pleasure, or even the most fundamental concepts of cause and effect are a product of your physical being. You get ā€œboredā€ because your brain and body can only take so much of a given stimulus before greater or different stimuli are needed to evoke equivalent feelings. Thatā€™s obviously not a limit that can exist if you donā€™t have a body anymore. In fact, time itself wouldnā€™t exist. Time is a property of matter and space. ---
**Author:** ![Wandering\_Pilgrim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@Wandering\_Pilgrim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wandering_Pilgrim)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2000, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-heaven-do-you-really-want-to-go/40213/35 "2000-11-19T13:21:04Z")
Hey Tracer I think you are not understanding one point of being saved that when you do go to Heaven your sinful nature is no more as it says in thessalonians you will be changed from what is mortal to what is immortal in a twinkling of an eye {Paraphrasing} the old nature will be gone and all that will be left is the new nature. Why those who are saved still sin is because they still have the old nature while on earth and wonā€™t be rid of it until they go to Heaven either by dying or flying {rapture}. Right now those who are saved and still sin are under grace and have an advocate in Heaven who continously interceeds for the believers. ---
**Author:** ![jb\_farley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9d8465/32.png) [@jb\_farley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jb_farley)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2000, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-heaven-do-you-really-want-to-go/40213/36 "2000-11-20T00:48:09Z")
Say I donā€™t repent my sins, and upon death get sent to hell. If the soul is unbounded by time, doesnā€™t that mean my soul was in hell before I was born? ---
**Author:** ![Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c67d28/32.png) [@Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weird_AL_Einstein)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2001, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-heaven-do-you-really-want-to-go/40213/37 "2001-06-14T13:34:30Z")
Being new here, I have taken to looking through old threads to see what I have missed. When I saw this, I just **had** to bump it and reply: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\*Traveling in elephants, or reasonable facsimile. > > A small restaurant in a college town in Kansas. > > A pub where convivial, intellectually stimulating conversation is going on. > > A bar where shared pain is divided and shared joy multiplied. > > (Can anybody guess some of my favorite authors?:)) > \*\* The first two are Heinlein, ā€œThe Man Who Traveled in Elephantsā€ (a rarity) and ā€œJob: A Comedy of Justiceā€. I am pretty sure the other two are Spider Robinson, from what was it? ā€œCallahanā€™s Crosstime Saloonā€? Is that right? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2001, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-heaven-do-you-really-want-to-go/40213/38 "2001-06-14T13:42:56Z")
According to Talking Heads: > [@](#): > > ``` > There is a party, everyone is there. > Everyone will leave at exactly the same time. > Its hard to imagine that nothing at all > could be so exciting, and so much fun. > > Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens. > Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens. > > ``` My idea of heaven is a huge library with a Thai/Korean/Japanese restaurant and a hot tub with Ken Ryker and Ty Fox asking me to rub their backs. ---
**Author:** ![Acco40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@Acco40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acco40)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2001, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-heaven-do-you-really-want-to-go/40213/39 "2001-06-14T14:35:38Z")
As a pantheist (God is everywhere) I donā€™t believe in a traditional heaven. However, I agree with the OP that the traditional heaven would be a letdown after awhile - if you experienced things the same way as you do on Earth. Donā€™t forget: you donā€™t have senses anymore after you die; no brain eitherā€¦ just your spirit is left over. The spirit requires different stimuli to feel happy than your brain. Thatā€™s why heaven is less like a theme park and more like a warm, relaxing, transcendental, soapy-bubble bath for your spirit. Think of the times when your spirit and ā€œpeace of mindā€ have been most at ease, I believe that would most-accurately describe heaven. No sights, no sounds, no faces, just little balls of magic floating around. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhā€¦ But since I believe in reincarnation and that a little chunk of God is in everything, every spirit is just recycled, and heaven - is where you find it. ---
**Author:** ![MetropoChris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@MetropoChris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MetropoChris)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2001, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-heaven-do-you-really-want-to-go/40213/40 "2001-06-16T10:21:07Z")
It was nice to read what I wrote 6 months ago. I forgot how smart I am šŸ˜‰ I love me šŸ™‚ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-heaven-do-you-really-want-to-go/40213.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-heaven-do-you-really-want-to-go/40213.md?page=3)