# What is "high angle firing"? (re: snipers)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-angle-firing-re-snipers/409196
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [June 24, 2007, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-angle-firing-re-snipers/409196 "2007-06-24T06:03:25Z")
**Posts on this page:** 16
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2007, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-angle-firing-re-snipers/409196/1 "2007-06-24T06:03:25Z")
The title says it all.
I’ve searched the net for the answer and an explanation, but all I can find seems to be little more than a standard, deafult definition\* (courtesy of NATO, I think):
[\*Fire delivered at angles of elevation greater than the elevation that corresponds to the maximum range of the gun and ammunition concerned; fire, the range of which decreases as the angle of elevation is increased](http://usmilitary.about.com/od/glossarytermsh/g/h2872.htm).
That definition not only makes no sense to me, but it’s not accompanied by any sort of explanation. In fact, it doesn’t even seem to be about snipers - more like artillery.
As always, thanks in advance!
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### Author:  [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2007, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-angle-firing-re-snipers/409196/2 "2007-06-24T07:59:47Z")
Edited highlights: Bullets actually decrease in altitude after they leave the barrel.
The same ballistic principles that are true for a 25-pdr field gun are also true for a rifle, and the farther away your target, the higher you need to aim (this is known as “Elevation” in shooting terms; “Windage” refers to adjusting your sights to the left or right to account for wind etc).
Turn of the century rifles (particularly Lee-Enfields) are often equipped with “Volley Sights” which would enable the firer to get an approximate sight angle for a target up to 2800 yards away. By that range, though, the rifle is almost being aimed at a 45 degree angle.
Basically, what the article is saying is that the sights on a gun are only graduated to a certain range (1000-2000 yards in the case of most WWI/WWII bolt action rifles), but that you can still engage targets further away than that by working out how much higher you need to aim the gun. There is a point, however, where aiming the gun higher will reduce the range rather than increasing it (and it’s not necessarily a 45 degree angle- the bullet weight, type, and powder charge are all components of this as well and can affect it quite noticeably)
In High-Angle Firing, you’re effectively “lobbing” the bullet onto the target- much like a field gun. It’s a fancy name for “Shooting at a target beyond the range marked on the sights”, as I understand it.
No doubt someone with military experience will be in soon to correct or contradict me, though…
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### Author:  [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2007, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-angle-firing-re-snipers/409196/3 "2007-06-24T08:09:09Z")
The definition seems pretty clear to me.
Consider a cannon firing horizontally. The cannonball will go a certain distance. Raise the angle of elevation and the cannonball will go further. Keep raising the angle and the cannonball goes further still. After a certain point (45 degrees in theory) you’ll reach the maximum range. If you raise the angle of elevation even further, the distance the cannonball flies starts to decrease.
Useful for hitting targets hiding behind an embankment, for instance. I’m not sure what this has to do with sniping.
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### Author:  [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2007, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-angle-firing-re-snipers/409196/4 "2007-06-24T08:30:35Z")
Do you have a picture of those volley sights?
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### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2007, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-angle-firing-re-snipers/409196/5 "2007-06-24T08:50:02Z")
[QUOTE=Rick]
Do you have a picture of those volley sights?
[/QUOTE]
[This page](http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl04-e.htm), 8th photo down.
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### Author:  [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2007, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-angle-firing-re-snipers/409196/6 "2007-06-24T15:45:57Z")
[QUOTE=Martini Enfield]
The same ballistic principles that are true for a 25-pdr field gun are also true for a rifle, and the farther away your target, the higher you need to aim (this is known as “Elevation” in shooting terms; “Windage” refers to adjusting your sights to the left or right to account for wind etc).
[/QUOTE]
Growing up, this was called “holding over,” which is, quite literally, holding your sights _over_ (above) your target, once you’ve passed the maximum elevation adjustment in your sights. If you know your weapon properly, and the range to your target, you can easily enough calculate/guestimate the required hold-over to engage targets beyond the effective range of your sights. As hold-over increases, accuracy decreases at an ever increasing rate - it’s a more than linear decrease. Not only are you eyeballing the hold-over, but atmospheric effects have that much longer to mess with flight path. Never-the-less, good marksmen can reliably engage targets considerably beyond the technical range of their sights.
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### Author:  [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2007, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-angle-firing-re-snipers/409196/7 "2007-06-24T16:16:30Z")
Thanks - I really appreciate everyone’s very helpful comments.
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### Author:  [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2007, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-angle-firing-re-snipers/409196/8 "2007-06-24T17:13:34Z")
> [@Martini Enfield](#):
>
> “Windage” refers to adjusting your sights to the left or right to account for wind etc
You left out the best kind: Kentucky Windage! No need to adjust your sights, just toss back that bourbon and estimate.
Good post, I always wondered about volley sights, never knowing that’s what they’re called.
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2007, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-angle-firing-re-snipers/409196/9 "2007-06-24T17:18:14Z")
Note why they are called “volley” sights: At the ranges they are firing at, you have to send a large number of projectiles downrange to have any hope of hitting anything.
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### Author:  [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2007, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-angle-firing-re-snipers/409196/10 "2007-06-24T17:47:26Z")
If I recall correctly, I was first exposed to this concept in OCS when they showed an inspirational clip from _The Lighthorsemen_. It seemed anathema to be that wasteful with a carbine, but then again if it worked at Agincourt when arrows were so much more costly, why not?
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### Author:  [@Jake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2007, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-angle-firing-re-snipers/409196/11 "2007-06-24T18:08:32Z")
[QUOTE=El Cid Viscoso]
You left out the best kind: Kentucky Windage! No need to adjust your sights, just toss back that bourbon and estimate.
Good post, I always wondered about volley sights, never knowing that’s what they’re called.
[/QUOTE]
Don’t forget to spit on your thumb and wipe that mote of dust off’n yore front sight. After about a mile it makes a difference. 🙂
Them Ken-tucks shore got good eyesight! 😃
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2007, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-angle-firing-re-snipers/409196/12 "2007-06-24T18:34:56Z")
[QUOTE=Jake]
Don’t forget to spit on your thumb and wipe that mote of dust off’n yore front sight.
[/QUOTE]
I believe Sergeant York explained, “It cuts down the haze.”
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### Author:  [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2007, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-angle-firing-re-snipers/409196/13 "2007-06-24T18:44:40Z")
I had the experience of firing on a 500 yard range at Gitmo in the early 60’s. I was using an M1 Garand. It’s quite a challenge just to hit the target, let alone get a bullseye, at that distance. As I recall the targets were at least twice as big as the 200-300 yard targets.
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### Author:  [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2007, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-angle-firing-re-snipers/409196/14 "2007-06-24T18:50:28Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant]
I believe Sergeant York explained, “It cuts down the haze.”
[/QUOTE]
Actually, some shooters will blacken the front sight to give it better contrast. You adjust the focus of your eye on the front sight for a proper sight picture, so that the rear sight and the target are out of focus and a bit hazy.
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### Author:  [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2007, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-angle-firing-re-snipers/409196/15 "2007-06-25T10:55:35Z")
[QUOTE=A.R. Cane]
Actually, some shooters will blacken the front sight to give it better contrast. You adjust the focus of your eye on the front sight for a proper sight picture, so that the rear sight and the target are out of focus and a bit hazy.
[/QUOTE]
I use correction fluid on my front sights- it provides better visibility in low-light conditions (ie spotlighting) and contrasts better with the black or red bullseyes used in most competitions here. Best of all, it’s non-permanent, which is very important when you’re shooting collectible military surplus rifles.
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### Author:  [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2007, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-angle-firing-re-snipers/409196/16 "2007-06-25T11:05:07Z")
[QUOTE=Martini Enfield]
I use correction fluid on my front sights- it provides better visibility in low-light conditions (ie spotlighting) and contrasts better with the black or red bullseyes used in most competitions here. Best of all, it’s non-permanent, which is very important when you’re shooting collectible military surplus rifles.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I’ve seen that too, anything that provides visual contrast and reminds you where to focus.