# What is "high society" today? Does it even exist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [September 17, 2025, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-society-today-does-it-even-exist/1023123 "2025-09-17T12:34:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21825_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2025, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-society-today-does-it-even-exist/1023123/1 "2025-09-17T12:34:09Z")
Yesterday, I watched _“The Age of Innocence”_ - a story set in the late 19th/early 20th century. The main characters were members of “society”. Which got me to wondering… Are debutant balls still a thing? Do young women “come out” in society when they’re of age to be presented to marriage-minded men? Do people still have huge staffs of servants to tend to their every need? Is livery a thing outside of maybe royal families? Are there people in “society” who can determine whether others are worthy of inclusion or if they’re to be shunned? Are there manners that are expected and/or demanded in particular situations? The movie specifically mentioned that a woman was not to approach a man for conversation but must wait for him to come to her. Do you personally know anyone who exists in the upper strata, or perhaps do you, and you’re just on the Dope to slum with the riff-raff? From the movie and my reading, it feels like there were a lot of very restrictive rules about behavior and entertaining and dress and, well, pretty much every aspect of one’s life. Was that the price to be paid for being titled, privileged, and wealthy? I suppose every group has rules, but dang, it seems like being hoity-toity was a tightrope act of expectations and limitations. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2025, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-society-today-does-it-even-exist/1023123/2 "2025-09-17T12:43:46Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > Are there people in “society” who can determine whether others are worthy of inclusion or if they’re to be shunned? > > Are there manners that are expected and/or demanded in particular situations? The movie specifically mentioned that a woman was not to approach a man for conversation but must wait for him to come to her. > [@FairyChatMom](#): > > I suppose every group has rules, but dang, it seems like being hoity-toity was a tightrope act of expectations and limitations. This sounds right. The type of high society from something like _Downton Abbey_ no longer exists AFAICT. But almost all groups (not just the wealthy) have some sort of expectations WRT who they will include, and someone(s) who functions as a sort of gatekeeper to decide if that person meets said standards. It’s just that the various standards for today’s world aren’t the same ones that used to exist back in the day. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2025, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-society-today-does-it-even-exist/1023123/3 "2025-09-17T13:15:57Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > Are debutant balls still a thing? Do young women “come out” in society when they’re of age to be presented to marriage-minded men? Well, yes, but people try to not be explicit about that aspect now, and try to democratize it so that even non-rich people do it. Latin Americans call it a [quinceañera](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quincea%C3%B1era). While WASPS do, I think, occasionally still have “sweet 16” parties and “coming out” parties I think the idea has mostly been taken over by the high school prom. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2025, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-society-today-does-it-even-exist/1023123/4 "2025-09-17T13:19:03Z")
Google news has lots of hits for [recent debutante balls](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-m&sca_esv=d262380f444288af&channel=ts&sxsrf=AE3TifNxIRIwf31roC9or6S9Kx4Epm9ihg:1758115065253&q=debutante+ball&tbm=nws&source=lnms&fbs=AIIjpHxU7SXXniUZfeShr2fp4giZ1Y6MJ25_tmWITc7uy4KIeiAkWG4OlBE2zyCTMjPbGmPgfe_7ak8LUsonpWCvT6w6csnyTymMQ2XHqFKxVhyiTngbpNVM7lv1DYTLvoKUIV3UQf-UJ2ncxRM9P3Yyg_6PNGgcO5nkGxPFvjt901_KjJD71IhWXg2pqayp77I3Ice17hqWpkyMTQIdZ3PRA-TSQSWw6g&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjs78D_8N-PAxXG4MkDHcCiL_QQ0pQJegQIDxAB&biw=292&bih=574&dpr=1.94). ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2025, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-society-today-does-it-even-exist/1023123/5 "2025-09-17T13:27:46Z")
Reading those articles makes it sound more like debutante cosplay than the real thing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2025, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-society-today-does-it-even-exist/1023123/6 "2025-09-17T13:37:28Z")
How about high culture types of things, like opera and art exhibitions? ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2025, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-society-today-does-it-even-exist/1023123/7 "2025-09-17T13:41:01Z")
I think Greek culture at some Southern universities is a rough modern equivalent. From [this article](https://www.eonline.com/news/1375253/bama-rush-deep-dives-into-sorority-culture-heres-everything-we-learned): > **“A positive attitude and priority for chapter spirit is essential and expected.”** > > **Once you are accepted into a sorority, the above edict, pulled from Sigma Kappa’s official C.O.C. from 2020, is just one of the many rules sisters must follow, along with not drinking while wearing your Greek letters. And, according to one rumor, one unnamed sorority stressed that you may not leave your dorm unless you have two of the three done: hair, makeup or outfit.** > **While there’s no official ranking of the sororities at The University of Alabama, it’s widely accepted that there are top-tier houses. (Example: Zeta Tau Alpha, Phi Mu and Alpha Deta Phi are considered the most desirable sororities, per the doc.)** > > **“Rush is a social ritual stratification, bar none,” Elizabeth Boyd, author of _Southern Beauty: Race, Ritual, and Memory in the Modern South_, says. “It’s a proving ground of competitive femineity.”** > > **According to Rush consultant Sloan Anderson, the ranking system is based on the fraternities.** > > **“Essentially, they have a social calendar, and they get to mix with certain sororities, but it’s only a limited amount,” Anderson shares. “And the fraternities want to be mixing with the hottest sororities. They want to make sure the girls that are wearing their letters are up to their standards.”** ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2025, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-society-today-does-it-even-exist/1023123/8 "2025-09-17T14:02:04Z")
My very limited understanding, since I don’t have the former and don’t come from the latter, is that it’s a difference between ‘New Money’ and ‘Old Money’. ‘Old Money’ families kept to certain traditions and decorum, and looked down on ‘New Money’ families as gauche and philistine. ‘Old Money’ was high class / high society. ‘New Money’ was a class below, though new money families might aspire to ‘high society’ and attempt inroads into it, with varying success. These days I think the class / society distinction between ‘New Money’ and ‘Old Money’ is much more blurred or less apparent. > **[Guide to New Money vs. Old Money | SoFi](https://www.sofi.com/learn/content/new-vs-old-money/)** > > Old money typically refers to inherited wealth, while new money describes self-made or earned wealth. Learn more about the distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2025, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-society-today-does-it-even-exist/1023123/9 "2025-09-17T14:20:19Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > How about high culture types of things, like opera and art exhibitions? At least in the U.S., opera houses and concert halls are nowhere near as stuffy and exclusive as they were a century ago, though you’ll still see a black-tie dress code at the occasional opening night or gala event. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2025, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-society-today-does-it-even-exist/1023123/10 "2025-09-17T15:10:44Z")
Yes, it exists in Hillsborough California. But it is less on public display. In example the Pebble Beach Concours de Elegance was an exclusive event in 1953, but it was open to the public and lightly attended. Today it is a crowded, commercial show. The original is now the Concours & Cocktails at the Preserve, invitation only for the elite. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2025, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-society-today-does-it-even-exist/1023123/11 "2025-09-17T15:29:59Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > invitation only for the elite. But who are these elite these days? Are they still the mansion-dwellers in Hillsborough and environs, or does the invitation list also include more modern celebrities, who are famous for being famous? > [@FairyChatMom](#): > > Are there people in “society” who can determine whether others are worthy of inclusion or if they’re to be shunned? “Never speak disrespectfully of Society, Algernon. Only people who can’t get into it do that.” ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2025, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-society-today-does-it-even-exist/1023123/12 "2025-09-17T15:53:49Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > But who are these elite these days? In the concours example, people wealthy enough to own cars of historical significance. The cost of ownership of such a car (garaging, security, insurance, maintenance) far outstrips the annual income of the middle class. The polo grounds are seldom used these days and the Grand Tier at the Opera House is no longer entirely hereditary, But, the very wealthy are still there, a bit down the penninsula. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2025, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-society-today-does-it-even-exist/1023123/13 "2025-09-17T22:26:00Z")
Ellie Kemper of _The Office_, _The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmitt_ and others was a genuine debutante. Her family is one of the richest in Missouri, and her grandmother has an art museum named after her. Ellie herself was named Queen of Love and Beauty at the St. Louis Veiled Prophet Ball, and later apologized for taking part in an elitist ceremony held by a racist organization. The Veiled Prophet organization has fallen out of favor, but there are still plenty of organizations for the socially-aspiring. Probably the most notable one around here is the Junior League, which is based on wealthy women doing good deeds, and is considerably more democratic than the old rich white family power structure. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2025, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-society-today-does-it-even-exist/1023123/14 "2025-09-18T00:25:42Z")
There are plenty of books that talk about modern debutante balls in the U.S. I’ve read some and while the authors do mock some of the traditions, and the mostly mothers and grandmothers who push their daughters into them, they also gently praise keeping some of the old values alive and acknowledge that many girls truly look forward to their day. (All of the balls and groups now seem to be integrated, although there may be a few exceptions in the black community.) Comedian Fortune Feimster has a hilarious routine about her debutante training. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/UI71h8_lLoo/maxresdefault.jpg "Fortune Feimster's Debutante Training on Netflix Is A Joke | Fortune Feimster Comedy") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI71h8_lLoo) Downtown Abbey like society has crumbled but the new billionaire class try to live in a world of their own making separate from the plebeians. New York magazine just had [a special issue about the Hampton](https://nymag.com/tags/the-hamptons-issue/)s, and the attitudes, feuds, and battles with authorities that go on there every day. Does Ralph Lauren really need four stores in East Hampton? It must be read to be believed. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2025, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-society-today-does-it-even-exist/1023123/15 "2025-09-18T14:55:19Z")
My understanding is that high society does exist, but its kind of laden in conspiracy theories. Bohemian grove, the trilateral commission, SoHo House, Core club, etc. They are invite only clubs where the rich, powerful and influential go to interact in private. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2025, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-society-today-does-it-even-exist/1023123/16 "2025-09-18T15:05:23Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > “coming out” parties I don’t think THAT means the same thing nowadays as it did 100 years ago……(not that there is anything wrong with THAT.) ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21825_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2025, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-society-today-does-it-even-exist/1023123/17 "2025-09-18T15:15:06Z")
I wondered when someone would comment on the terminology… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2025, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-society-today-does-it-even-exist/1023123/18 "2025-09-18T15:20:17Z")
“Larry, you must meet our daughter, the debutante. She came out last spring." "Whoa! Put her back in - she’s not done yet!” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2025, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-society-today-does-it-even-exist/1023123/19 "2025-09-18T19:47:03Z")
Check out Fortune Feimster’s routine. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2025, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-society-today-does-it-even-exist/1023123/20 "2025-09-18T22:26:49Z")
The Social Register is still being published. > **[Social Register](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Register)** > > The Social Register is a semi-annual publication in the United States that indexes the members of American high society. First published in the 1880s by newspaper columnist Louis Keller, it was later acquired by Malcolm Forbes. Since 2014, it has been owned by Christopher Wolf. > It was historically a directory of "old money", well-connected families from the Northeastern United States. In recent years, membership has diversified both in the geography and ethnicity of those it lists. > The Social ... Cecil Adams wrote a column about it. He noted that North Dakota had only a single family in the Register, “no doubt, the toast of Fargo”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-high-society-today-does-it-even-exist/1023123.md?page=2)