# What is holding back electronic books? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 18, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-holding-back-electronic-books/473372 "2008-11-18T22:38:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-holding-back-electronic-books/473372/81 "2008-11-20T12:56:31Z")
[general, not to anyone in particular]I’m not saying there aren’t advantages to eBook, it’s just that they have the potential to crowd out real books to the extent that they effect the real book market. Which would be objectively okay if they had real advantages and no disadvantages, but EVEN IF they DO have disadvantages, the advantages of convenience and price could distort the production of real books and make them much harder to come by, EVEN IF a majority of the population would prefer to read a real book if they could, so in that sense, it could be a step backwards, quality-wise. Example: MP3s, which are of lesser quality usually than CDs, have affected real music production to the extent that producers don’t care about quality anymore: in fact, some new CDs sound like they were compressed to sound good on MP3. Which in my case, I don’t mind, because it puts the dirt on the grave of the already-buried grunge production values of the early to mid 90s: completely clear production but with mega bass, only made possible to hear with the cleanliness of CDs, (I hated that production style because of lack of warmth, but thankfully it was already dying with the slow death of [del]rage rock[/del]nu-metal in the early to mid 2000’s). But it also means that the delicate sounds of vinyl-quality prog rock of the 70s will also become much rarer ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-holding-back-electronic-books/473372/82 "2008-11-20T13:39:09Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > If I invest in a technology, I want it to be around for me when I want to use it. And I suspect that THIS is the main reason a lot of people are not jumping on the ebook bandwagon. This is one of the two reasons I’m not jumping back onto the ebook bandwagon. To re-state my post#9. a) I don’t believe the current technology will be the surviving technology. (I lost that bet already once). b) Without purchasing two of the devices, I can’t share a book with my spouse. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-holding-back-electronic-books/473372/83 "2008-11-20T13:53:45Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Well, you are taking things to ridiculous levels by trying to put the cost into it of things like the book shelves and weight and such. But I’ll bite…you take your device and put it over your head and drop it. I’ll take my 600 books and drop them from the same height. I already addressed that in my first post. I have dropped my Palm from up to 6’. I have a hard case for it. I wouldn’t want to do it often, though. But, as I said previously, I am not careless with books that way, either. The cost of book cases is important because that is what you hold your books in when you aren’t reading them. I do it on my memory card in my Palm. To say a book cost x amount without adding in the storage cost is misleading. How much is that space in your house worth where the book shelves sit? I’m removing mine in my rec room so I can install an air hockey table. I can’t put in the table without removing the books. > [@](#): > > How much did your Palm cost you? How much did e-books on it cost you? The Palm was purchased by my company, but it cost ~$600 at the time I purchased it. It had just come out on the market. Now it has been discontinued for a couple years. Books are bought at [ereader.com](http://ereader.com). If I want it I buy it. I don’t worry to much about the cost. > [@](#): > > Using your PDA or cell phone, even with the bigger displays, is IMHO not going to be a serious option for reading large novels and such except by a very small percentage of folks (such as yourself). I read my books in landscape mode. The average word count across the screen is about 8. It displays 13 lines of text (about a paragraph in a book). A text book I randomly grabbed off the shelf has about 13 words to a line. It isn’t that different. I’m just turning the page more often (a click of the navigation button and a flick of the eyes to the top of the page, all unconscious after all this time.). ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-holding-back-electronic-books/473372/84 "2008-11-20T14:02:59Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > To say a book cost x amount without adding in the storage cost is misleading. How much is that space in your house worth where the book shelves sit? I started getting rid of books so that I could afford to move someday. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-holding-back-electronic-books/473372/85 "2008-11-20T15:11:44Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > For me it’s because they aren’t actual books. You miss the experience of holding a book, curling up on the couch with a blanket, sipping a glass of wine and flipping through the pages. Or going to a bookstore and being around the sight and smell of all those books. That’s part of it for me and I don’t think it compares well with MP3s in lieu of vinyl or CDs. Part of what helped MP3s take off was that you could buy/download single tracks you wanted and not the entire album. I don’t think many people are saying “I only want chapter five from that novel”. Another thing is that the reader’s physical interaction with the book is greater than the audiophile’s physical interaction with the music media. You may enjoy the artwork and physical sensation of holding an album but you don’t really curl up with it. Connected to that is that listening to a song (or even an album) is much less of a time commitment than reading a book. You might find a great book and spend a week or two carrying it onto the train, sitting on the couch, lying in bed, etc. I think you develop more of a physical affinity to the medium that way that isn’t replicated through electronic readers. As long as I’m hearing music come from my speakers, I don’t care how it got there. When I’m reading, it’s a different “feel” for me if it’s a computer screen or paper. It might be irrational but that’s still one of the hurdles for me. But, for the most part for me, I just don’t see a need for an electronic book in my life, much less one that costs $100 or whatever. Books are easy, durable and pretty inexpensive unless you exclusively buy hardbacks. Plus I enjoy the ownership of the object itself. I could probably get over the physical aspect if there was an overwhelming reason to but, so far, there’s not. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-holding-back-electronic-books/473372/86 "2008-11-20T15:32:35Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > That’s part of it for me and I don’t think it compares well with MP3s in lieu of vinyl or CDs. Part of what helped MP3s take off was that you could buy/download single tracks you wanted and not the entire album. I don’t think many people are saying “I only want chapter five from that novel”. The difference is much bigger. We can’t rip our existing library to an e-book reader. For the product to take off they are going to have to offer some big advantage over dead-tree books. Currently the industry is in denial. They think portability alone will be the USP but book reading is a minority pass-time. The potential consumer base is just a fraction of that for portable music and the device cost so much higher. They need to create a new market and for me that has to be based on price and convenience. I want an e-reader to pay for itself with savings. I want my newspaper sitting on it in the morning over wi-fi and with a large part of the cost savings passed on to me. I want to be able to read a review and have the book on the device a ferw minutes later. I’d be much more inclined to impulse buy like I did in the Olden Days when books were not a stupid price. Thirty years ago, on a pittance income, I didn’t have to think twice about buying a mass market paperback on impulse. Nowadays though … E-books should be a chance to make reading a cheap hobby. The readers should also be a chance to develop the medium in different ways, bring new forms to the novel. My feeling is we’re at least 5 years from the technology being ready. I saw a tech-demo of new reader that was very book and paper like to the extent that you turned virtual pages with your thumb. Much better than the off-putting flash-to-black page shifting with the Sony. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-holding-back-electronic-books/473372/87 "2008-11-20T17:46:13Z")
The Kindle only fails the ‘bathtub’ and ‘price’ test for me. If it were considerably cheaper, to the point where I might own several, it might pass. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-holding-back-electronic-books/473372/88 "2008-11-20T19:03:41Z")
Ok, I think I am seeing some patterns here. For some there are practical aspects (cost, readability, longevity, etc.) that mean they are not ready to make the leap now. For others the there is an emotional barrier that connects them to the books. So lets stipulate some things: A standard book format that will always be supported (all new readers will be able to read older books), prices starting below $50 for readers and price per book averaging around 60% of current paperback costs. The cheapest readers can support at least 8/48 reading/standby hours, have excellent readability and are fairly resilient (can survive getting splashed or dropped on cement). Expected life is a minimum 2 years. Majority of books published by major houses are available electronic at release. If all that became true (and I think it could be done today), what percentage of readers would be willing to switch? What percentage would hold out? Jonathan ---
**Author:** ![bobthebuilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobthebuilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobthebuilder)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-holding-back-electronic-books/473372/89 "2008-11-20T19:04:36Z")
I own The Nokia N800 internet tablet. And I find it perfectly acceptable in reading any books that I want. I think the screen is fine. (I had to install a new back light managing program to turn the back light down to almost nothing) I find it not an eyestrain. Of course I really only read books for [gutenberg.org](http://gutenberg.org) and baen I do not know if others would work. The device does alot more than read books, but its the main use I have for it. I really like it. Its really light and a nice size. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-holding-back-electronic-books/473372/90 "2008-11-20T19:16:07Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > [general, not to anyone in particular]I’m not saying there aren’t advantages to eBook, it’s just that they have the potential to crowd out real books to the extent that they effect the real book market. Which would be objectively okay if they had real advantages and no disadvantages, but EVEN IF they DO have disadvantages, the advantages of convenience and price could distort the production of real books and make them much harder to come by, EVEN IF a majority of the population would prefer to read a real book if they could, so in that sense, it could be a step backwards, quality-wise. Example: MP3s, I am not sure that a drop in quality really follows. Maybe for coffee table style books meant more to be looked at than read. But those books would not really be suited for digital conversion anyway. Mass market books are not all that well made. Posters have mentioned books from 100 years ago. Well some books from 100 years ago do hold up, but not as well as books from 200 years ago. Most books published 50 years ago are falling apart due to cheap glue and paper. Text books are getting more cheaply made these days because publishers want to sell a new one next term. (side note, I have two Differential Equations text books, one published in 2004 and one published in the 1960s, guess which one’s binding is going) There is also the question of what “quality” means in regards to books. The quality of the writing will not be affected by switch to digital. Dickens will read the same and so will Rowling. The quantity may increase as barriers to publishing go down, but while that may let more crap through it will also let more potentially great writers get in the door. Jonathan ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-holding-back-electronic-books/473372/91 "2008-11-20T19:24:57Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > So lets stipulate some things: A standard book format that will always be supported (all new readers will be able to read older books), prices starting below $50 for readers and price per book averaging around 60% of current paperback costs. The cheapest readers can support at least 8/48 reading/standby hours, have excellent readability and are fairly resilient (can survive getting splashed or dropped on cement). Expected life is a minimum 2 years. Majority of books published by major houses are available electronic at release. > > If all that became true (and I think it could be done today), what percentage of readers would be willing to switch? What percentage would hold out? Could the ebooks be available at libraries, say with a 30 day window of readability before it locks up? If so, I’d switch. Since most of my reading is free, I don’t see adding costs. But for my husband who adores magazines, the Kindle is already pretty appealing. I wish I could afford it. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-holding-back-electronic-books/473372/92 "2008-11-20T19:26:11Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > I am not sure that a drop in quality really follows. I mostly mean the eye strain issue, which some claim does not exist, but I haven’t seen the supposedly new and improved e readers so I can’t say for certain. There are also several other quality points that others make in this thread which I don’t really agree with, either, but my point was that _assuming_ there is a generally agreed on drop in quality, which I’m not sure there is, e-books can _still_ gain market share due to cost. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-holding-back-electronic-books/473372/93 "2008-11-20T19:31:32Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > Ok, I think I am seeing some patterns here. For some there are practical aspects (cost, readability, longevity, etc.) that mean they are not ready to make the leap now. For others the there is an emotional barrier that connects them to the books. > > So lets stipulate some things: A standard book format that will always be supported (all new readers will be able to read older books), prices starting below $50 for readers and price per book averaging around 60% of current paperback costs. The cheapest readers can support at least 8/48 reading/standby hours, have excellent readability and are fairly resilient (can survive getting splashed or dropped on cement). Expected life is a minimum 2 years. Majority of books published by major houses are available electronic at release. > > If all that became true (and I think it could be done today), what percentage of readers would be willing to switch? What percentage would hold out? > > Jonathan I wouldn’t switch, but I may use it for some things. (Things I don’t really want to keep and only expect to read once, for example) I expect most of my book reading would still be done with real books. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-holding-back-electronic-books/473372/94 "2008-11-20T19:32:37Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I mostly mean the eye strain issue, which some claim does not exist, but I haven’t seen the supposedly new and improved e readers so I can’t say for certain. > > There are also several other quality points that others make in this thread which I don’t really agree with, either, but my point was that _assuming_ there is a generally agreed on drop in quality, which I’m not sure there is, e-books can _still_ gain market share due to cost. Well, there is a current spread in quality now, from super cheap book club books with fuzzy printing to high quality large print editions. I, personally, have never had an issue with eye strain. Some people have eyestrain with print books. The advantage of a good digital book system would be that people like me could buy a cheaper model of reader, but the same book. If you double the price of the reader, but keep the price of the books the same, those with bad eyesight might do better with digital than with print. Jonathan ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-holding-back-electronic-books/473372/95 "2008-11-20T21:42:30Z")
8/48 is not acceptable. I’d take 6/400, though. ---
**Author:** ![grayhairedmomma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/47e85d/32.png) [@grayhairedmomma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grayhairedmomma)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-holding-back-electronic-books/473372/96 "2008-11-20T22:41:48Z")
I did some research into getting an ebook reader for my 11yr old daughter this Christmas. She is always carrying around 3-4 books and she enjoys being able to switch books (me I read one until it’s done and then move on). Listed in order of importance are the big drawbacks to me: [ol] [li]Lack of software for blocking books that are too mature for her [/li][li]Serendipity[/li][li]Fragility of the hardware[/li][li]Price of the hardware[/li][li]Obsolence of the hardware[/li][li]Price of the ebooks[/li][li]Tactile experience[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-holding-back-electronic-books/473372/97 "2008-11-20T22:48:09Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > 8/48 is not acceptable. I’d take 6/400, though. I guess it would depend on how much you read. Depending on what else is going on in my life, I can read a lot. Eight hours is based on traveling. On a 12 hour flight, I would need to at least 8 hours book time. But I have no problem putting the reader on a charger every night. I don’t thing I could get close to only reading 6 hours in 2 weeks (400 hrs=16 2/3 days). Jonathan ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-holding-back-electronic-books/473372/98 "2008-11-20T23:34:46Z")
> [@grayhairedmomma](#): > > I did some research into getting an ebook reader for my 11yr old daughter this Christmas. She is always carrying around 3-4 books and she enjoys being able to switch books (me I read one until it’s done and then move on). Listed in order of importance are the big drawbacks to me: > > [ol] > [li]Lack of software for blocking books that are too mature for her [/li][li]Serendipity[/li][li]Fragility of the hardware[/li][li]Price of the hardware[/li][li]Obsolence of the hardware[/li][li]Price of the ebooks[/li][li]Tactile experience[/li][/ol] Most of these have been addressed by me and others, but I am curious about 1. Outside of buying pornography, what keeps her from buying books that are two mature for her right now? Anais Nin is available in Borders and as far as I know they don’t check ID for that kind of book. Off topic, my grandmother gave me two books for Christmas when I was 11. One was SF about a planet of teddy bear like sentients that liked to imitate any piece of human history or fiction they found (very age appropriate), the other was the story of boy who was created to be the temporary vessel of the soul of a witch who wanted to possess the son of the king of the city. The book included physical and mental torture (forcing someone to cut their tongue out, burning people at the stake upside down so the fire would take longer to work its way down to vital organs and kill them, etc.) a very disturbing theology (there is only one god or goddess at a time, when they die their bodies crash to earth where they can be manipulated by humans for their own purposes until a new god is somehow created), and fairly descriptive sex scenes (not Valley of Horses level, but still more than I had read to that point). I enjoyed the book quite a bit and wish I could remember the title so I could find it again (it had a mottled dark red cover), but I never told my grandmother what it was about because I was afraid she would never buy me another book. Jonathan ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-holding-back-electronic-books/473372/99 "2008-11-21T04:44:30Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > I guess it would depend on how much you read. Depending on what else is going on in my life, I can read a lot. Eight hours is based on traveling. On a 12 hour flight, I would need to at least 8 hours book time. But I have no problem putting the reader on a charger every night. I don’t thing I could get close to only reading 6 hours in 2 weeks (400 hrs=16 2/3 days). > > Jonathan Yeah, but I could carry two readers or have a portable battery. I could _live_ with 6/400. I’d prefer 8-10/400. I rarely read more than 6 hours straight, and when I do, generally, I know about it in advance. But I do read for one hour, or even half an hour or five minutes or thirty seconds… over a period of a week or so. Having to charge it every night would be a PITA. Edit: Hey, someone else remembers the Hokas! ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-holding-back-electronic-books/473372/100 "2008-11-21T05:53:59Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Could the ebooks be available at libraries, say with a 30 day window of readability before it locks up? If so, I’d switch. Since most of my reading is free, I don’t see adding costs. Many libraries already offer ebooks. I can check out books for 21 days directly from the Seattle library website. I don’t believe the Kindle has support for checking out books (yet) but the Sony sure does. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-holding-back-electronic-books/473372.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-holding-back-electronic-books/473372.md?page=6)