# what is it about having children that causes women to become inconsiderate monsters? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 19, 2006, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-having-children-that-causes-women-to-become-inconsiderate-monsters/349026 "2006-03-19T19:55:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-having-children-that-causes-women-to-become-inconsiderate-monsters/349026/81 "2006-03-21T01:47:10Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > Junior should to be taught from Day One that you are the one in charge, and what you say goes. So when it’s mommy’s bath time, Junior needs to behave. When mommy wants to watch her show on TV, Junior needs to leave her alone. When mommy’s on the phone, Junior needs to be quiet. Because of course, this is all perfectly comprehensible to a 4 month old. ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-having-children-that-causes-women-to-become-inconsiderate-monsters/349026/82 "2006-03-21T01:54:34Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Because of course, this is all perfectly comprehensible to a 4 month old. Well, of course. She did say taught from **day one**. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-having-children-that-causes-women-to-become-inconsiderate-monsters/349026/83 "2006-03-21T01:59:11Z")
> [@bluetrust](#): > > - Animal-like behavior is normal for kids; they’re like seeing eye dogs and olives, necessary for civilization Kids are not necessary for civilization. Kids ARE civilization. **Children are people.** You know, like you. > [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > Junior should to be taught from Day One that you are the one in charge, and what you say goes. So when it’s mommy’s bath time, Junior needs to behave. When mommy wants to watch her show on TV, Junior needs to leave her alone. When mommy’s on the phone, Junior needs to be quiet. > > When my brother and I were growing up, we never prevented our parents from doing their daily activities. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! You’re telling me when you were two months old you never prevented your parents from following the usual routine, huh? Were you raised in a cage? Boy, do you need to spend a little more time with a baby. Infants cannot be taught who’s “in charge.” Infants don’t even comprehend the laws of cause and effect. They don’t even understand object permanence, for Christ’s sake. A three month old baby can be taught essentially nothing at all. My God, do you live in a city with no babies or something? ---
**Author:** ![elelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@elelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elelle)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-having-children-that-causes-women-to-become-inconsiderate-monsters/349026/84 "2006-03-21T02:06:04Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Try it this way. When you are single and have no kids, or even married and have no kids, you have no responsibility beyond yourself. You can change jobs, homes, careers, friends, etc. at the drop of a hat. Your one and only responsibility is to yourself (or, if married, your spouse). What you do affects you. That’s it. You don’t HAVE to get up and go to work, because you’re the only one being affected by not having that income. You can take off Friday night and not come back til Tuesday morning without telling anyone, because YOU are the only one you answer to. > > That all changes when you have a child. Suddenly, you have to care for this whole other person. You have to make sure they’re fed, healthy, cared for when you’re working (so much of a huge problem it deserves its own thread), their futures planned for…it goes on and on. You are no longer all about just you. You can never be just about you ever again. If you’ve decided that’s not for you, then more power to you for knowing that. But yeah, it is inherently selfish. THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY A BAD THING. Being selfish about your own life is up to you. But because you haven’t seen the issue from both sides and most likely won’t, then you really do lack perspective on it. That’s not a judgement call, that’s just the way it is. Not that I dispute the sacrifices in life a parent does for their child, it’s an essential, and admirable, part of life. But I have to pipe up: I am childless by choice, but my life does not revolve around ME. I am very involved with my work, and love it, and really, cannot “take off Friday night and not come back til Tuesday morning without telling anyone”. I have the responsibility of making my business run properly, and responsibility to my coworkers, and their families. I cannot take off at the drop of a hat. There are other important modes of contribution to society besides having children, and please don’t characterize those of us who have decided to not have children as selfish, any more than one should criticize people who do have children as selfish. I love kids, love my niece and nephew, and love to teach children about Natural Science. Pretty compassionate about that, and view all children as the next best hope. Slight highjack here, but count me in as one who sees that it’s the spectrum of humanity, some parents are self-absorbed, some not. I do love it when I can take the kids of the self-absorbed away for a bit and open their minds to bugs and such… ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-having-children-that-causes-women-to-become-inconsiderate-monsters/349026/85 "2006-03-21T06:03:52Z")
> [@fessie](#): > > It really irks me when people who don’t have children rail against mothers. There are some idiots among us, no doubt; I haven’t met more than a few, but there are certainly more. > > What I don’t think some of you understand is what being a mother of small children entails. > > I no longer: Shower more than 2x/wk, wear makeup, color my hair, buy much of anything for myself, watch TV of my choosing (it certainly wouldn’t include Elmo), go to the bathroom alone, talk on the phone without interruptions, go to friends’ houses or just out for fun unless advance arrangements have been made (and then it’s for a proscribed period of time). > > My kids get 80% of me. > > Before I can eat, I have to make sure they’ve been fed. Are they clean? Safe? Dressed appropriately? Entertained? > > Before you bash on moms, get yourself a couple of puppies and attend to their every need, no fair using cages. It’s a journey like no other. I wouldn’t trade this job for anything, raising them is an unbelievable privilege; but this is Work. You guys who haven’t done it have absolutely no clue. > > I’d finish this thought but my ds is pitching a fit. This attitude brings me just to the edge of starting a seething Pit rant that would blister the paint on your walls. I’ll reel it in a bit to just try and express an opinion. Before I start lemme get a couple thoughts out. The OP is a terribly framed point and all critcisms about over-generalizations and confirmation bias are apt. Still, the argument that inconsiderate mothers are just inconsiderate people from the start is wrong. This is certainly true in the strict sense, meaning that most rude people become rude mothers. However the implication that becoming a parent doesn’t change you is bullshit. Like has been expressed numerous times many people who weren’t rude, and others who were at least were inconspicuous in their rudeness, become oppressively rude as a reaction to being a parent. The reasons for this are many and varied, but to deny it is flat out ignorant. That’s not to say _all_ people manifest these unpleasant traits after childbirth, but the number is undeniably significant. Back to the statement quoted above (which has been echoed a few times). In all likeliness true and perfectly acceptable. You chose to have children for whatever reason, I respect that and hope it’s what makes you happy. Good for you. It’s a difficult and often unforgiving job to say the least. I won’t deny that. _However_, the implication is that other people should show some tolerance and cut you all kinds of slack because of how difficult this choice you made is. **No Fucking Way**. I’m not saying we have carte blanche to treat you like scum or anything, normal decorum still prevails, but I will not be asked to compromise my life because of the choice you made. This rationalization that is the cause of the prevailing culture which places single and/or childless employees in the position of covering for their child-rearing coworkers and being forced to compensate for their frequent absenses and often fluid schedules. I’m not saying workers should be forced to ingore their children in the sake of work, but I am saying that all worked need to be treated equally. Arguments like you make here are the justifications for why you get to come in late without burning a sick day while my doing so would lead to me being fired. This is why parents get to take children onto planes and into sporting events without buying them a ticket and crowding everyone else. **You** chose to have kids. You knew what the deal was and the work it required. You are the one responsible for maintaining a level of awareness and courtesy to those around you regardless of this choice you made. The difficulty of raising a child affords you no special privledges in the world. If you cannot cope with raising a child without creating misery in your wake you should _not_ have children. If you have a job which does not allow you a flexible work schedule, then you need to chose between that job or having a child. Either that, or companies had better start allowing all employees the same leeway parents recieve. This is the crux of the point as I read the OP. What makes some mothers become insufferable as a result of becoming parents? This argument and the dopers agreeing with it indicates that this exact sense of entitlement is a big cause of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-having-children-that-causes-women-to-become-inconsiderate-monsters/349026/86 "2006-03-21T06:13:56Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Because of course, this is all perfectly comprehensible to a 4 month old. A 4-month old can be perfectly fine in his little portable chair thingie in the bathroom with mommy for 15 minutes while she takes a shower. Or mommy can take a shower while Junior takes a nap. Or while daddy can watch him. This isn’t rocket science. I’m not even a mother and I came up with those ideas all on my own!! And I’d like to know how a child of any age would prevent **fessie** from watching whatever program she wants. In fact, if she’s letting an infant, toddler or small child dictate what she watches, then I think there’s some major role reversal going on here. Or some major spoliage. > [@RickJay](#): > > You’re telling me when you were two months old you never prevented your parents from following the usual routine, huh? Were you raised in a cage? Boy, do you need to spend a little more time with a baby. Hey, if my mom wanted to take a shower or put on her makeup, my dad could watch us or we could (god forbid!!) spend 15 minutes in our crib! ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-having-children-that-causes-women-to-become-inconsiderate-monsters/349026/87 "2006-03-21T07:53:35Z")
Maybe the fact that I am ADD and helped my mom raise 4 kids gives me a huge advantage, but seriously, child care isn’t that hard. When I was in High School, I used to babysit for my neighbors across the street who had 5 children under the age of 10. Sometimes they would go on overnight trips and I would take care of the whole family all the way from the baby girl who crawled around trying to eat everything that could fit into her mouth to the oldest boy who would’ve spent the entire time jumping around on the furniture screaming if I’d let him. The parents loved me because I not only would have the kids properly fed, washed and under control, but I would also clean the entire house. And before you say “It’s different when it’s your own!” I’ve found that it’s easier when it’s your own. I’ve raised baby animals and I’ve done the whole sleepless nights thing. Being a parent is no excuse for inconsiderate behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-having-children-that-causes-women-to-become-inconsiderate-monsters/349026/88 "2006-03-21T10:10:10Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > _However_, the implication is that other people should show some tolerance and cut you all kinds of slack because of how difficult this choice you made is. **No Fucking Way** I’m not too sure what any parents you work with have asked you to do for them, but all I would ask for is manners and the leave I’m legally entitled to 😕 If someone is using raising babies as a fake excuse for being late and letting the company down, well that’s something wrong with the management. If they can’t find a way for the parents to cope (if in genuine need of time off) or they can’t see through quite flimsy excuses, don’t blame the parents who’ve had to feed a child who woke up the whole house bawling their little heads off. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-having-children-that-causes-women-to-become-inconsiderate-monsters/349026/89 "2006-03-21T12:09:02Z")
The flimsy excuses? Yeah, it’s like the people who decide they’re going to show up at 9 every day because their kid doesn’t get on the school bus until 8:15 and they have to leave at 4:00 because Junior gets off the bus at 4:30. It’s leaving in the middle of the work day for 2.5 hours to go to Junior’s school concert and feeling entitled to do so. Did that woman take her regular lunch when she got back? Yes. She left at 9:30 for the concert, came back at noon, and left again at 12:30 for her lunch. It’s the people who come to work with their kid because the kid has a fever and can’t go to the day care, so the kid runs around infecting everyone in the office. The people who think that there should be a different limit of paid time off for them because they are parents. Those who think I don’t mind ‘staying late to tidy up a few things’ when really it’s 50% of the project that still has to be done because they have kids and I don’t. I have two coworkers, both of whom have kids and both of whom have spouses who do not have jobs outside the home, who are **late by 20 to 30 minutes every single day because they have to take the kids to the bus stop**. They’re not my subordinates or something would be done about this. I’m sure I’d get called a bitch for telling them to start showing up on time or start shopping their resumes around. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-having-children-that-causes-women-to-become-inconsiderate-monsters/349026/90 "2006-03-21T12:20:12Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > This rationalization that is the cause of the prevailing culture which places single and/or childless employees in the position of covering for their child-rearing coworkers and being forced to compensate for their frequent absenses and often fluid schedules. Oh, what nonsense. I’ve been both childless and a parent and never encuntered this mystical land where workers without kids are called upon to work all kinds of extra hours to make up for people with kids. Where are these magical employers that let people get away with doing less work for having children? Nowhere. They don’t exist. > [@](#): > > This is why parents get to take children onto planes and into sporting events without buying them a ticket and crowding everyone else. Pure whiny bullshit, an absolute lie. Parents can take BABIES into sporting events - not all children - without a ticket for the very reason that they don’t crowd everyone else, because they don’t occupy a seat. Honestly, where are these sporting events that you just can’t find any room because of all the babies? The same place as your magical mystery employers: in fantasy bullshit land. And how, precisely, would it benefit you if parents who took BABIES onto airplanes had to pay for it? Would you have more room? No, you’d have less, you dumbass, because then they would be entitled to a seat. > [@](#): > > This argument and the dopers agreeing with it indicates that this exact sense of entitlement is a big cause of the problem. Again, this is simply the purest bullshit. Nobody thinks mothers (or fathers) have special entitlement, and nobody has argued as such. they’re asking for you to simply be polite in recognition of the fact that children are people too. Babies are equally entitled to the space and consideration you afford anyone else. They are not toys, or accessories, or choices. They’re human beings. What their parents did or not decide is irrelevant. Parents are asking for for exactly the same consideration YOU got, and your parents got, when YOU were a baby, which you were, in case you forgot. If you don’t like the fact that babies are a part of being a human being and require a little more elbow room and work, here’s what you do; Go into the forest and live as a hermit. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-having-children-that-causes-women-to-become-inconsiderate-monsters/349026/91 "2006-03-21T12:40:38Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > The flimsy excuses? YMMV The biggest cow-orker in our office is someone who skips off for sick leave on the smallest pretence, 4 weeks stress leave from being clamped for parking illegally (without a proper permit on our grounds) sick leave from surgery years ago that others in our office have had to no lasting effect etc The mums who work in our office either take shorter lunch hours or take unpaid leave to look after their kids. So in effect it would seem that having children makes you a more efficient worker 😃 But then of course such a sweeping generalisation is the MO of the OP only 😉 ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-having-children-that-causes-women-to-become-inconsiderate-monsters/349026/92 "2006-03-21T13:17:14Z")
> [@](#): > > **Pushkin** said: > YMMV I did specifically say **my coworkers** and did not extend it to anyone else. I merely said that my work situation did involve these sorts of things and gave some examples. I haven’t discussed the former coworker who spent half her day on her mobile phone with her daughters. Nor did I mention that of the previous three coworkers in the last post (two late every day, one taking time off for concerts), two of them are men with stay-at-home wives. ---
**Author:** ![BoringDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BoringDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoringDad)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-having-children-that-causes-women-to-become-inconsiderate-monsters/349026/93 "2006-03-21T13:35:11Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > I did specifically say **my coworkers** and did not extend it to anyone else. > > I merely said that my work situation did involve these sorts of things and gave some examples. Yes, you certainly gave examples of working for a bad manager who did nothing to control obvious excesses by people with kids. How is it the parents fault that they do what their boss allows them to do? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-having-children-that-causes-women-to-become-inconsiderate-monsters/349026/94 "2006-03-21T13:52:56Z")
> [@BoringDad](#): > > Yes, you certainly gave examples of working for a bad manager who did nothing to control obvious excesses by people with kids. How is it the parents fault that they do what their boss allows them to do? Well, in fairness to the childless, the parents out there shouldn’t _have_ to have the rules laid out for them. But, I can’t say I’ve ever come across someone who abuses parenthood like that. In fact, all the people I know how take “sickies” are not parents. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-having-children-that-causes-women-to-become-inconsiderate-monsters/349026/95 "2006-03-21T14:15:19Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > I did specifically say **my coworkers** and did not extend it to anyone else. > > I merely said that my work situation did involve these sorts of things and gave some examples Before you mentioned your coworkers, your post sounded like it was referring to parents at work in general. > [@catsix](#): > > Yeah, it’s like the people who decide they’re going to show up at 9 every day because their kid doesn’t get on the school bus until 8:15 and they have to leave at 4:00 because Junior gets off the bus at 4:30. > > It’s leaving in the middle of the work day for 2.5 hours to go to Junior’s school concert and feeling entitled to do so. Did that woman take her regular lunch when she got back? Yes. She left at 9:30 for the concert, came back at noon, and left again at 12:30 for her lunch. > > It’s the people who come to work with their kid because the kid has a fever and can’t go to the day care, so the kid runs around infecting everyone in the office. The people who think that there should be a different limit of paid time off for them because they are parents. Those who think I don’t mind ‘staying late to tidy up a few things’ when really it’s 50% of the project that still has to be done because they have kids and I don’t. As was mentioned, your post did make your workplace management sound a bit iffy. Do you/did you ask your manager to do something about this? ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-having-children-that-causes-women-to-become-inconsiderate-monsters/349026/96 "2006-03-21T15:04:45Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Oh, what nonsense. I’ve been both childless and a parent and never encuntered this mystical land where workers without kids are called upon to work all kinds of extra hours to make up for people with kids. Where are these magical employers that let people get away with doing less work for having children? Nowhere. They don’t exist… Not sure where it is that you have been working, but this is something that I have seen in one form or another everywhere that I have ever worked. Guess you must just be lucky. ---
**Author:** ![MaddyStrut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@MaddyStrut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaddyStrut)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-having-children-that-causes-women-to-become-inconsiderate-monsters/349026/97 "2006-03-21T15:29:55Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > Not sure where it is that you have been working, but this is something that I have seen in one form or another everywhere that I have ever worked. This has been my experience as well. It’s not so much a policy thing as it is a peer pressure thing. And it’s not “all kinds of extra hours.” It’s more like the odd hour here and there. However, unless you want to be known as a selfish git, you pretty much accept that you’ll end up filling in for parents more than they’ll fill in for you. It’s not that parents never fill in when you have to leave early/come in late/take a sick day. Most of the time they do. However, it’s not guaranteed that they’ll find the time to do so. In contrast, if someone is out for a child related reason, you’re expected to find the time, even if it means you end up staying later than you would otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-having-children-that-causes-women-to-become-inconsiderate-monsters/349026/98 "2006-03-21T15:47:16Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > _However_, the implication is that other people should show some tolerance and cut you all kinds of slack because of how difficult this choice you made is. **No Fucking Way**. I’m not saying we have carte blanche to treat you like scum or anything, normal decorum still prevails, but I will not be asked to compromise my life because of the choice you made. So that’s the kind of society you want to live in eh? Just remember this post if you have kids someday, and you haven’t slept for four days because eveybody in you family is sick. You single coworker won’t cut you an inch of slack because they absolutely have to go out drinking with their buddies and can’t be late. After all you made your bed and we certainly can’t have a society where people will give anybody else any kind of break. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-having-children-that-causes-women-to-become-inconsiderate-monsters/349026/99 "2006-03-21T16:16:01Z")
> [@elelle](#): > > Not that I dispute the sacrifices in life a parent does for their child, it’s an essential, and admirable, part of life. But I have to pipe up: I am childless by choice, but my life does not revolve around ME. I am very involved with my work, and love it, and really, cannot “take off Friday night and not come back til Tuesday morning without telling anyone”. I have the responsibility of making my business run properly, and responsibility to my coworkers, and their families. I cannot take off at the drop of a hat. There are other important modes of contribution to society besides having children, and please don’t characterize those of us who have decided to not have children as selfish, any more than one should criticize people who do have children as selfish. > > I love kids, love my niece and nephew, and love to teach children about Natural Science. Pretty compassionate about that, and view all children as the next best hope. > > Slight highjack here, but count me in as one who sees that it’s the spectrum of humanity, some parents are self-absorbed, some not. I do love it when I can take the kids of the self-absorbed away for a bit and open their minds to bugs and such… The big difference is that you can walk away from your responsibilities to others. I currently have a pit thread about my sister, who is an alcoholic without children. While I can’t say the choices she is making aren’t causing her family and friends pain, she isn’t responsible for us - only herself. If she wants to be completely self absorbed and wallow in alcohol and her imagined victimizations - that’s her business. Once you are a parent, the law gets involved (and societial pressure to a bigger extent than when you are single - my sister gets societal pressure - but she also gets "thank God there are no children involved). If you want to go out after work and you don’t have a child, you go. If you have a committment to another adult, you call and say “changed my mind.” If you want to go out after work and you have a child young enough to require care, you can’t just leave them in daycare. After 6:30 (or whenever), the daycare starts considering calling CPS. Its your responsibility to at least make sure they are cared for - even if you don’t do it yourself. There are plenty of selfless childless people who dedicate their lives to others - and I have nothing but admiration for them. In part, I think its a greater calling than parenting because it is so freely chosen - and chosen each moment. While parenting is a choice (birth control, adoption, abstinence can all keep parenting from happening accidently), I doubt it isn’t ever a completely informed choice - and it is almost always a committment once the choice is made. You can’t (at least not easily) chose to stop parenting. People do however. I have a friend of a friend who just took off, leaving her husband with his three kids. “I don’t want to be a mom anymore.” Very sad. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-having-children-that-causes-women-to-become-inconsiderate-monsters/349026/100 "2006-03-21T16:19:10Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > This rationalization that is the cause of the prevailing culture which places single and/or childless employees in the position of covering for their child-rearing coworkers and being forced to compensate for their frequent absenses and often fluid schedules. I’m not saying workers should be forced to ingore their children in the sake of work, but I am saying that all worked need to be treated equally. Arguments like you make here are the justifications for why you get to come in late without burning a sick day while my doing so would lead to me being fired. This is why parents get to take children onto planes and into sporting events without buying them a ticket and crowding everyone else. There’s a lot of merit to your arguments about the workplace. It’s a terrible conundrum - do you want only “unemployable” women giving birth? And are you entirely confident that nobody else in your workplace has ever had to pick up the slack for your shortcomings? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-having-children-that-causes-women-to-become-inconsiderate-monsters/349026.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-having-children-that-causes-women-to-become-inconsiderate-monsters/349026.md?page=6)