# What is it about the Catholic Priesthood that attracts so many pedophiles? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 21, 2010, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-the-catholic-priesthood-that-attracts-so-many-pedophiles/533212 "2010-03-21T05:05:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-the-catholic-priesthood-that-attracts-so-many-pedophiles/533212/141 "2010-04-01T02:06:44Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > And … now … what? If you’re trying to say that we should just get rid of the Catholic church, then just come out and say it and propose how that might be accomplished. > > Otherwise, I have no idea what you’re doing in this thread except spewing outrage. I’m outraged that what apparently has been a long term, wide spread, chronic condition was allowed to continue. I’m outraged that yes, no action was taken. Get rid of the church? No. I do expect them to actually stand by all the fine words they preach every Sunday, about love, justice, kindness, honesty, and then practice what they preach. If that means purging the “bad apples” then they should do it. If they don’t they are complicit. Matt 23:27-29 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. Matt 23:25-26 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-the-catholic-priesthood-that-attracts-so-many-pedophiles/533212/142 "2010-04-01T02:09:15Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > The police and the courts of course. The law is already in place - enforce it. No one is above the law. Must be a novel concept in some quarters. The victim presses charges. Police investigate and collect evidence. A trial is held. If guilty, a conviction follows. You realize that this has been the law all along, right? Are you really in this thread just to tautologize that “criminal acts should be prosecuted”? > [@](#): > > It’s a hell of a lot better than the NOTHING that was done before, isn’t it? In fact, as I linked, bishops are starting to say the same thing, as in “tell the cops”. Is that so hard to grasp? Is what so hard to grasp? Thread asks: What is it about the Catholic Priesthood that attracts so many pedophiles? Some people try to answer: It’s not that the church attracts paedophiles. It’s that the church has been exercising a common institutional instinct to protect itself. (or other helpful attempts to address the question) SteveG1 answers: Throw them all in jail! Don’t bother me with all your ragginfraggin discussionating! What’s so hard to grasp here! ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-the-catholic-priesthood-that-attracts-so-many-pedophiles/533212/143 "2010-04-01T02:15:06Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > You realize that this has been the law all along, right? Are you really in this thread just to tautologize that “criminal acts should be prosecuted”? > > Is what so hard to grasp? > > Thread asks: What is it about the Catholic Priesthood that attracts so many pedophiles? > > Some people try to answer: It’s not that the church attracts paedophiles. It’s that the church has been exercising a common institutional instinct to protect itself. (or other helpful attempts to address the question) > > SteveG1 answers: Throw them all in jail! Don’t bother me with all your ragginfraggin discussionating! What’s so hard to grasp here! It doesn’t necessarily attract them, but it sure protects them once they are “in the system”, by using internal rules about secrecy to sidestep the law. What would you do if you found you had a cancer? You’d have it removed. That is what “these guys” should have done. Instead, they let it metastasize. So instead of protecting the institution, they are poisoning it, through their own inaction. That is stupid. "So you do to the least … " Remember that one? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-the-catholic-priesthood-that-attracts-so-many-pedophiles/533212/144 "2010-04-01T02:37:10Z")
Oh, I get it. If only someone in the church had been given Bartlett’s, none of this would ever have happened. ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-the-catholic-priesthood-that-attracts-so-many-pedophiles/533212/145 "2010-04-01T03:58:12Z")
We all know that athiests are never pedolphiles. It is just a catholic problem so get rid of the catholic church and that will take care of the problem. What about the internet? Kids are hunted online all day long. Should we get rid of that too? If I was a pedophile the last job I would go into is the priesthood. At least in the US. The new rules are in place and make it virtually impossible. If someone di go in with that idea he would soon find there are much easier ways to get to children. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-the-catholic-priesthood-that-attracts-so-many-pedophiles/533212/146 "2010-04-01T15:23:13Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Oh, I get it. If only someone in the church had been given Bartlett’s, none of this would ever have happened. No. It happened. A lot, apparently. You seem more upset that it is being stopped than that it happened, more upset that it ever came tto the surface. So what is your answer? Is it something like the following? _Oh it’s too complex. It’s too big to fail. It will hurt the institution. It’s not about rape, or torture, or any of that, it’s an institutional thing. You want to dismantle the church. Don’t deal with the problem, just keep on keeping on. Better to just wring our hands and drop the subject._ Is that a fair summation? If The Institution is broke, you fix it. You remove the rules that require perpetual silence. You call the cops on the perp. You get your eviidence and your testimonies, and if it all points to guilt, you take action. You don’t reassign the perp and pretend nothing happened. It’s in the hands of the pope, the cardinals and the bishops to fix the institution and prevent future instances. It should be in the hands of the police and the courts to deal with past instances - because the law was broken - crimes were committed. > [@](#): > > Swiss bishops urged victims to consider filing criminal complaints. German bishops opened a hot line for victims. Danish bishops launched an inquiry into decades-old claims. … “Thank you for breaking your silence,” Schoenborn told the victims. "A lot has been broken open. There is less looking away. … bishops one after another admitted to mistakes, reached out to victims and promised to act when they learn about abuse. > [@](#): > > The first thing the church has to do is to move out of any mode of denial. Where the church is involved in social care it should be in the vanguard. That is different to a situation in which the church proclaims that it is in the vanguard. … the archdiocese had an “obsessive concern with secrecy and the avoidance of scandal” and had “little or no concern for the welfare of the abused child”. … failures on my part contributed to the suffering of victims in any form". “…No words of apology will ever be sufficient.” No apology, unless it is backed up by action. No more silence. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-the-catholic-priesthood-that-attracts-so-many-pedophiles/533212/147 "2010-04-01T15:42:29Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > No. It happened. A lot, apparently. You seem more upset that it is being stopped than that it happened, more upset that it ever came tto the surface. So what is your answer? > > Is it something like the following? > > _Oh it’s too complex. It’s too big to fail. It will hurt the institution. It’s not about rape, or torture, or any of that, it’s an institutional thing. You want to dismantle the church. Don’t deal with the problem, just keep on keeping on. Better to just wring our hands and drop the subject._ > > Is that a fair summation? This is an April Fool’s joke, right? > [@](#): > > If The Institution is broke, you fix it. You remove the rules that require perpetual silence. You call the cops on the perp. You get your eviidence and your testimonies, and if it all points to guilt, you take action. 1. So there _is_ an institutional problem? And it _is_ worth addressing? 2. Who is “you” in each of these sentences? Are any of them participating in this thread? How does this apply to the OP’s question? > [@](#): > > You don’t reassign the perp and pretend nothing happened. It’s in the hands of the pope, the cardinals and the bishops to fix the institution and prevent future instances. It should be in the hands of the police and the courts to deal with past instances - because the law was broken - crimes were committed. Now that you have stated the obvious, can you explain how this applies to the OP’s question? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-the-catholic-priesthood-that-attracts-so-many-pedophiles/533212/148 "2010-04-01T16:09:43Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > This is an April Fool’s joke, right? > > 1. So there _is_ an institutional problem? And it _is_ worth addressing? > 2. Who is “you” in each of these sentences? Are any of them participating in this thread? How does this apply to the OP’s question? > > Now that you have stated the obvious, can you explain how this applies to the OP’s question? It’s not an April Fools joke, I’m serious. Further, my first 'appearnce" in this thread was to agree with Martu that there was a simple solution - arrests and convictions - at least as a first step. Later I added, the church should revoke requirement for perpetual silence and should stop reassigning perps instead of punishing them. I said there is an institutional problem and provided the cites. I said the institutional part of the problem was the enforced silence (with quotes and cites and stuff). As to the OP’s question, no I don’t necessarily think the church attracts an huge percentage of perpetrators. My beef was that they don’t do anything about them (anything useful or worthwhile) once they are in. So what is YOUR answer? How would you, Ascenray, deal with the problem if you had the authority? Go for it. Play “pope for a day”. As for the “you” in my statements, that is the rhetorical you, the generic “you”. Ya know what? The Church is not made up of only high ranking bishops and cardinals and priests. There are all those parishioners too. Maybe, they should stop contributing until the almighty “institution” gets its house in order. That would probably get some attention fast. Money talks. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-the-catholic-priesthood-that-attracts-so-many-pedophiles/533212/149 "2010-04-01T16:22:45Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > It’s not an April Fools joke, I’m serious. So you’re serious in baselessly imputing to me a grab bag of opinions. If I can remind you, this thread started with the premise that “The Catholic church disproportionately attracts sexual deviants.” My response was that I believed that it was not sex that was the issue but that the church as an institution was forming and implementing policy in a manner that was causing a problem. And then you started in with your “Institutional problems? That’s an excuse” line. I really don’t see any way out of this other than to offer you the opportunity to stop responding to my posts with non sequitur hysteria. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-the-catholic-priesthood-that-attracts-so-many-pedophiles/533212/150 "2010-04-01T16:45:35Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > So you’re serious in baselessly imputing to me a grab bag of opinions. > > If I can remind you, this thread started with the premise that “The Catholic church disproportionately attracts sexual deviants.” My response was that I believed that it was not sex that was the issue but that the church as an institution was forming and implementing policy in a manner that was causing a problem. And then you started in with your “Institutional problems? That’s an excuse” line. I really don’t see any way out of this other than to offer you the opportunity to stop responding to my posts with non sequitur hysteria. And my response was to list the specific “guidances and directions” that support your “institutional” statement, wasn’t it? However, I also added that it would be a straightforward matter to start correcting that, didn’t I? It seems the main focus of the “letters of instruction” - the institution - have for too long been to maintain silence. Here, again, were my “ways to address the issue” [ul] [li]revoke the demand/requirement for “perpetual silence” - institutional - and supported by an increasing number of bishops[/li][li]file criminal charges and issue arrest warrants against the perpetrator(s) - individuals - and supported by an increasing number of bishops[/li][li]remove those who are proven guilty from “the system” - institutional[/li][/ul] I was educated in a Catholic grade school, a Catholic high school and the first time going to college, in a Catholic college. The people I was taught by were honest, upstanding, ethical people. I imagine, they are probably just as disgusted by this mess, as anyone else would be. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-the-catholic-priesthood-that-attracts-so-many-pedophiles/533212/151 "2010-04-01T18:42:42Z")
What did \*\*Cesario \*\*do for a living again? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-the-catholic-priesthood-that-attracts-so-many-pedophiles/533212/152 "2010-04-02T21:23:39Z")
It just keeps going, doesn’t it. > [@](#): > > [http://www.samefacts.com/](http://www.samefacts.com/) > An ADA in Milan who heads the child abuse team there gives a partial answer to that question today: at least on his beat, never. **“The list of abusing priests is so long that I have to wonder if many of them deliberately chose the calling in order to have access to children** ….[but] I have never received a single denunciation from anywhere in the Catholic hierarchy from bishops down to sacristans or teachers….when we investigate a priest for these crimes, we have to do it completely on our own, usually on the basis of denunciations from victims’ families.” And he doesn’t have much respect for the internal machinery of the church: “Not only weren’t they punished, they were frequently just moved to another diocese to offend again.” [translations are free but accurate in content, check at the link] > > [Pedofilia, il pm di Milano denuncia: «La lista dei preti inquisiti è lunga» - Corriere della Sera](http://www.corriere.it/cronache/10_aprile_01/pedoflia-pm-milano_c4318994-3d5f-11df-9bd9-00144f02aabe.shtml) > > [Notizie di cronaca del Corriere della Sera](http://www.corriere.it/International/english/articoli/2010/03/26/pope_sex_abuse_priest.shtml) > > According to the NYT, the current pontiff knew that Fr Peter Hullermann, who began a course of therapy with his approval during the 1980s, would return to pastoral duties a few days after starting psychiatric treatment. Hullerman was later convicted of child molesting. Before today, as the New York Times points out, Ratzinger’s deputy at the time, Rev. Gerhard Gruber, has been held responsible for the decision to rehabilitate Hullermann. Now the American daily says that a memo was delivered to the future pontiff informing him on Hullermann’s situation. The paper says that the existence of the memo “was confirmed by two church officials” and “shows that the future pope not only led a meeting on Jan. 15, 1980, approving the transfer of the priest, but was also kept informed about the priest’s reassignment”. > > DER SPIEGEL’S REVELATIONS – A few days ago, the German weekly Der Spiegel reported the existence of documents and gave details of the child-abusing priest that the pope, when he was an archbishop, agreed should be treated in his Munich diocese in 1980. Later, however, Hullermann was recklessly returned to pastoral duties in contact with minors, for which Ratzinger’s vicar general, Gerhard Gruber, admits responsibility. The German weekly says that the pope, as archbishop of Munich, failed to take the problem of this child molester seriously. > … TRANSFERRED SEVERAL TIMES – Der Spiegel also alleges that Hullermann’s three subsequent transfers – including to Grafing, near Munich, where he was convicted in 1986 for abusing “several students” – took place with no warning about the paedophilia risk involved. The German media subsequently published new revelations about Hullermann. The DPA agency referred to two alleged cases of child sex abuse at Bottrop, in North Rhine-Westphalia, at the church of St Cyriakus, where Hullermann remained until 1978. Thereafter Hullermann, who is currently under suspension, went to Essen, where he stayed until 1980 and where he is alleged to have abused three other boys. Following these episodes, the priest was transferred in 1980 to Munich, where he again abused minors, and in 1986 he was given an eighteen months’ suspended sentence. Finally, there was another episode of alleged abuse in 1998, when Hullermann was at the parish of Garchin an der Alz in Bavaria. Added on edit: Check the remark by the Police (the ADA) in the first few lines. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-the-catholic-priesthood-that-attracts-so-many-pedophiles/533212/153 "2010-04-04T06:00:09Z")
Getting rid of the Cahtholic Church sounds like an excellent idea. It’s too much bath water, not enough baby. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-the-catholic-priesthood-that-attracts-so-many-pedophiles/533212/154 "2010-04-09T04:14:37Z")
[Pope Vows To Get Church Pedophilia Down To Acceptable Levels](http://www.theonion.com/articles/pope-vows-to-get-church-pedophilia-down-to-accepta,17201/) ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-the-catholic-priesthood-that-attracts-so-many-pedophiles/533212/155 "2010-04-09T13:59:08Z")
To actually address the OP; I think that young men raised in a community that teaches their predilections are an abomination before the Lord, be they homosexual or attracted to children, are drawn to the church as a place where they can stay safely away from greater society and attempt to pray away their inclinations. The shortage of priests mean there is no monastic refuge for those afraid of their own corruptions. Once in the priesthood they are surrounded by priests who do not always keep all of their vows strictly, (Human beings after all), and it breaks them down, and they give in to their inclinations. I don’t know that I believe they are drawn there for access to victims. I think they are attempting to escape who they are, and when they finally break they are surrounded by potential victims. Just my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-the-catholic-priesthood-that-attracts-so-many-pedophiles/533212/156 "2010-04-14T19:10:37Z")
[Church spokesman: Celibacy doesn’t cause pedophilia, homosexuality does.](http://www.salon.com/news/catholicism/index.html?story=/mwt/feature/2010/04/14/vatican_blames_gays) And, no, that is not from _The Onion._ ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-the-catholic-priesthood-that-attracts-so-many-pedophiles/533212/157 "2010-04-14T21:15:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Church spokesman: Celibacy doesn’t cause pedophilia, homosexuality does.](http://www.salon.com/news/catholicism/index.html?story=/mwt/feature/2010/04/14/vatican_blames_gays) > > And, no, that is not from _The Onion._ Where most of the victims are teenage boys (as has been the case in the USA, though not in Ireland, among other places), it’s neither unfair nor silly to ask: is the problem truly “pedophilia” or is it gay men who can’t/won’t keep their pants zipped around teenage males. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-the-catholic-priesthood-that-attracts-so-many-pedophiles/533212/158 "2010-04-14T21:42:33Z")
Gay adult males are not significantly more likely to molest male adolescents than straight adult males are. Ephebephilia, or sexual attraction to adolescents, cuts across sexual-orientation categories. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-the-catholic-priesthood-that-attracts-so-many-pedophiles/533212/159 "2010-04-14T22:50:55Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Gay adult males are not significantly more likely to molest male adolescents than straight adult males are. Ephebephilia, or sexual attraction to adolescents, cuts across sexual-orientation categories. This is a super important fact that is often overlooked in national media. Even though some people are trying to do gays a favor by distancing them from pedophiles (which is of course a total distinction), they serve no purpose when they inaccurately say “Molesting a 16 year old boy has nothing to do with gay or straight…”. No, if they molest a 16 year old boy they’re probably gay. If they molest a 6 year old boy then their orientation could go either way but the pedophilia overrides the normal sex drive. Either way of course it’s reprehensible, but there is a major difference in whether the strayed priest is gay or straight in terms of whether you’d want him around post-pubescant boys. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-the-catholic-priesthood-that-attracts-so-many-pedophiles/533212/160 "2010-04-15T00:37:13Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > No, if they molest a 16 year old boy they’re probably gay. Do you have a cite for that? Because the studies I’ve seen indicate that this is NOT necessarily true. Teenage boys are apparently at least as likely to be molested by a straight adult male (especially a family member) as by a gay adult male. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-the-catholic-priesthood-that-attracts-so-many-pedophiles/533212.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-about-the-catholic-priesthood-that-attracts-so-many-pedophiles/533212.md?page=9)