Bumping into the differences in the way the different sexes think about sex here, maybe?
I think you are correct about that FS. Look at all the confusion “date rape” can create.
I was addressing the notion that it’s equally split among other denominations (of heterosexual ministers). If the Catholic church has a 50/50 split of gay/heterosexual men and ratio of pedophiles remained the same then there should be an equal number of heterosexual pedophiles within it’s ranks.
I agree completely.
I might be persuaded that someone who is already inclined to molest children might lose their willpower in times of extreme stress, but you could cheat on me, divorce me, beat the crap out of me, steal my lunch money and call me a nerd and I wouldn’t react by groping a little girl. I really don’t see how that leap could be made.
I’ve wonder about the idea that there used to be some secret conspirational community of pedophiles out there. I can accept that with the internet, with its powerful ability to allow those with special interests to find one another and communicate privately it would be easy. But most of these catholic cases stem from decades ago. I really have trouble imagining that groups of young men probably just out of school got together with others with a common sexual interest in children and passed the word to go into the seminary.
Much more likely to my mind is that (pedophilia often stemming from molestation) a signficant proportion of pedophiles know where/how it is possible to get away with pedophilia based on what they saw the perpetrator against them get away with.
This is naive. The RCC is more monolithic than (say) the Methodists but the latter have organisational links, and community ties. A Methodist congregation can’t place a miscreant minister with another congregation directly, but they can choose to ensure that he never works as a minister again (by publicising his wrongdoing) or not, just like the RCC. If within the RCC there were those who knew that a particular priest had committed/was accused of committing these offences but nonethless chose to remove him from church A and place him in church B (for reasons of malevolence/indifference/naive belief he had reformed/whatever), then within other denominations exactly the same sort of people could do exactly the same for exactly the same reason simply by permitting someone to resign and giving them a good or even indifferent reference.
Aaaah, this is a really good point.
Priest somewhere molested an altar boy, who, already with a disposition towards religious service, joins the priesthood and, deeply twisted by the molestation he experienced as a child, becomes a pedophile himself.
No one’s mentioned alcohol. You used to hear about drunken priests all the time. ‘My’ priest is lit up like a Christmas tree with booze half the time though he’s AFAIK he’s kept his hands to himself.
I don’t think it’s naive. While it’s true that a Protestant church might permit an accused offender to resign, and give that person a good, or at least indifferent, reference, that’s not quite the same as simply reassigning that person to another parish, when that parish has no choice in the matter at all.
That is not an apology. It is the finger of blame pointing away from the Church (note the repeated use of the term ‘your’ referring the the Irish Church bishops).
Nothing there about his own role in covering up abuse, nothing about it being a world wide problem for the church and no sign that the RC is now willing to stop playing ‘diplomatic immunity’ games and co-operate with investigations and commissions.
Fail.
See also: Deliver Us From Evil, a documentary about a pedophile priest and how his actions were covered up, protected, or dismissed by his superiors–including Mahoney and whatsisface, the current Pope.
Could the shortage of priests be part of the problem here? It’s easier to fire somebody if you know there are lots of other qualified candidates for their job than it is if you know that people who can or will do that job are in short supply. If it’s hard to find priests, there’s more temptation to cover up if one does something bad instead of firing him, especially if he seems to be sorry. The problem is the “seems to”. Some people don’t have much trouble faking remorse, unfortunately.
IANACatholic, but I think the celibacy requirement and refusal to ordain women has something to do with the shortage of people willing to be priests.
Well, since the Methodist Church was the one specifically mentioned, let me say that ministers are assigned by the respective Conference, in our case here, the Northern Illinois Conference. The congregation in question would have some small say, but that’s only going to happen if there’s a reason for them to want to make a change at an unusual time. Most assignments run for about five years, and in June there’s a big musical chairs thing, where all the ministers whose assignments have changed go to their new congregations. So, yes, it would be possible for a particular congregation to ask for their minister to be removed mid-year, or earlier than he normally would have been, but the Conference would make the decision whether to reassign him. The congregation can’t just boot him out. And the Conference would have to figure out if there was a good reason to make the change. I suspect this is somewhere close to the norm for several of the mainline denominations. So the moving people to remove a problem, or just shifting from one congregation to another, could be happening in other denominations, too. The structure is just a bit looser.
I can’t help but wonder if the celibate structure of the RC actually attracts some who see it as a refuge. If the prevailing attitude leans toward, “None of us do that,” it might appear to be easier to just live without it and therefore avoid any confusing, or sinful, actions. The young man whose sexuality doesn’t fit into what he’s been taught is right, might find comfort in the idea of having the support of the whole structure and history and all his brothers to stay in the right path. And temptation comes to us all, in one form or another.
I could buy the argument that a pedophile who normally keeps their urges under wraps might have a hard time doing it under times of stress. But I don’t think an otherwise normal person non pedophile who’s stressed out might think, “Hm, maybe groping a young girl would help.” Doesn’t compute.
My apologies. I thought Methodist ministers were hired and fired by their congregations. I didn’t check that out, and I should have. I thought the congregataions were more independent – that it was more of a “ground up” authority structure than the RCC’s “top down” system.
Of course it doesn’t compute. This is blindingly obvious to nearly everyone. See, Sage Rat is merely raging against 
, by making the argument that , to prove to .
That may be true. It’s not entirely a bad thing – men who labor under the discipline of celibacy will no doubt find support in a community of men who share that life.
Absolutely. I don’t think there is any question of it.
I agree as do many Catholics.
What I’m doing is speculating. And I think it is more plausible that the Catholic priesthood is by its nature-in-social-context attractive to homosexuals, who then situationally gravitate towards pedophilia – or, to be fair, toward ephebophilia, which is a very different thing and IMO not nearly as sick or harmful, comparatively speaking* – than that the Catholic priesthood is attractive to born pedophiles or ephebophiles.
- I will never be ashamed of digging the early Traci Lords videos!
In one case the pedophile priest ends up able to commit further acts after being placed in a new role by the church authority, and in the other the pedophile minister ends up able to commit further acts after obtaining a new role unhindered by the church authority. I’m sure the victims would appreciate the difference.
Actually, the Anglican / Episcopalian church is also having the same problems in some places.
Pope Benedict recently did just that.