I’m not sure where the complexity is here can you help me out? Maybe I am being simplistic but to me abusing children is one of those areas that’s black and white, it’s bad lock them up.
Can the molestation be so minor that a non-custodial sentence is ever appropriate? For how long should they be locked up? Does any variation in the circumstances count or is it “touch nipple, spend life in jail?” What if there isn’t enough evidence to convict but there is a rumour? Do you ever distrust a complainant or is their word sacrosanct? What is the culpability of a guy in an organisation for what someone else in the organisation did? Potentially some, sometimes. How much? How do you know the extent of a problem in an organisation when the problem is both tabu and unlawful and no one will talk? Why was the problem there? How were new cases to be stopped?
That’s about five minutes work and all I have time for. Give me an hour or two and I’d fill a small book. Heck, just look at this thread: we’ve been talking for a couple of pages and it’s not as if we’ve come up with even a basic consensus about the OP’s question, which is merely one extremely narrow aspect of the greater subject.
You are being simplistic and illogical. Stating that an issue is simple because it has some some simple aspects is nonsense.
It is simple - accusations of this sort should be dealt with by the secular authorities not the church. Do you agree? Oh I agree we have all the usual trouble of evidence, sentencing and so on but this isn’t a difficult thing for the church to handle it’s a difficult thing for the secular authorities to handle.
I say again the church had a very simple thing to do – report the accusations to the police. Like the rest of us would.
You get back to me when the Papal Nuncio isn’t claiming diplomatic immunity from testifying to the Inquiry.
Or swear two 10 year old victims to eternal silence.
And your problem here is that speculating that homosexuals who are “hiding out in the priesthood” are any more likely than straights to succumb to the temptation of pedophilia or ephebophilia in the parish. There are gay pedophiles, and straight ones. And probably many who would self- identify as straight, when not engaged in an activity that is often more about power than sex.
I can actually see that Catholic priesthood could be attractive to born pedophiles or ephebophiles for much the same reason that you thought it would be attractive to homosexuals. If someone knows that their sexual preferences are illegal, choosing a job where having a traditional straight relationship is not an option eliminates any questions about “when are you getting married.” Access to children would just be a value added bonus as it where. Whether it has happened in real life, I have no idea.
You complained about a single sentence in a letter several pages long, much of which is the catholic pope saying that the irish catholic church stuffed up big time. Neither the letter as a whole, nor the paragraph in which the sentence is contained, nor the sentence itself is simply about whether or not accusations of this sort should be dealt with by the secular authorites. So complaining about the suggestion that the issues are complex, because one single aspect of the matter is simple, despite the comment about complexity not being about the aspect of the matter that is simple, makes no og damned sense whatever.
I can’t parse this, do you work for the Vatican?
Blame shifting.
Why didn’t the parents report the abuse to the police?
Because they were told they would go to Hell for eternity?
Really? There’s no excuse for abuse or for the Church covering up abuse. But the parents really dropped the ball.
I doubt that there is any significantly larger incidence of pedophilia or ephebophilia or homosexuality or anything else among Catholic priests than there is in the general population. I have a vague memory of reading a story some time in the last few years that there is an ongoing problem with priests having affairs with adult women. The problem was that the priests’ superiors often counsel them to “get the sex out of their system” and then dedicate themselves to their work. What this essentially means is that they are advising them to abandon their (adult female) lovers along with any children they might have had.
As has been said above, this is not a sex problem, it’s an institutional problem.
I have no idea if that’s true but fear of eternal damnation, or the promise of eternal paradise, can be used to get people to do almost anything.
These aren’t necessarily the critical factors. Deference to authority, social pressure to respect the church, and a lifetime of believing that the institution is good are likely much stronger influences.
No not necessarily I agree though you have to ask yourself how the church got the deference, authority and social standing it has today and if you go back far enough you’ll find a bunch of people scared of hellfire.
Religion isn’t required for parents to act immorally when faced with their child’s abuse money can also work: Parents who asked son’s abuser for cash criticised
Plus the (legit) clergy become family to a good portion of the congregation. Shit, my smartass hippie homo-lovin’ parents had the nuns over for Thanksgiving once, and they helped us out a lot when we were fairly poor. Putting aside my lack of respect for the organization as a whole, there are very good people in the rectories and convents and removing them every few years could be a real problem for those who do depend on them.
There are no signs you parsed the pope’s letter either.
I skimmed it which was frankly more time than it deserved, if he wasn’t the head of an organisation which harboured and abetted child molesters I wouldn’t give two hoots about his senile ramblings.
Here is my attempt at the letter the Pope should have written:
We are really bloody sorry for hurting all those children. When any accusation of abuse was raised to the church authorities we should have gone immediately to the secular authorities so that they could investigate and we should have supported them in any way they saw fit. Quite why we didn’t do this rather simple and obvious thing I am still investigating but you mark my words, when I find out I’ll move those responsible to an another parish, err, deal with them harshly.
Yours apologetically
His Holiness, Ratzi.