# What is it called when a word's derivitave survives its defunct root word? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 22, 2002, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-called-when-a-words-derivitave-survives-its-defunct-root-word/144325 "2002-12-22T05:11:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-called-when-a-words-derivitave-survives-its-defunct-root-word/144325/1 "2002-12-22T05:11:05Z")
The best instance I can think of is “disgruntled”. “Gruntle” is either archiac or out of common use. Also… “gormless” (gorm?) “uncouth” (couth?) “feckless” (feck?) Is there a linguistic term for this? And are there any other words that fit that term? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-called-when-a-words-derivitave-survives-its-defunct-root-word/144325/2 "2002-12-22T05:13:44Z")
“Nonchalant” is another example, and it’s more interesting since it’s a negative word that has outlived its positive. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-called-when-a-words-derivitave-survives-its-defunct-root-word/144325/3 "2002-12-22T05:17:25Z")
And decapitated. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-called-when-a-words-derivitave-survives-its-defunct-root-word/144325/4 "2002-12-22T05:20:21Z")
_Couth_ is from an Old English word meaning ‘known’. _Feck_ is from Scottish dialect, a shortened form of “effect.” _Gorm_ was never a word apart from being an element in the whimsical coinage “gormless,” AFAIK. ---
**Author:** ![Catalyst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@Catalyst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catalyst)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-called-when-a-words-derivitave-survives-its-defunct-root-word/144325/5 "2002-12-22T08:01:41Z")
_Gorm_ apparently was a word . . . sort of. From [Dictionary.com](http://www.dictionary.com) > [@](#): > > From dialectal gawm, sense, from Middle English gome, notice, from Old Norse gaumr. ---
**Author:** ![Catalyst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@Catalyst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catalyst)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-called-when-a-words-derivitave-survives-its-defunct-root-word/144325/6 "2002-12-22T08:12:44Z")
I hate to post twice in a row like this, but it seems that _chalant_ never was an English word to begin with. Again, from [Dictionary.com](http://www.dictionary.com) > [@](#): > > Nonchalant > . . . > French, from Old French, present participle of nonchaloir, to be unconcerned : non-, non- + chaloir, to cause concern to (from Latin calre, to be warm, heat up. And from their word history in the entry: > [@](#): > > A nonchalant person is not likely to become warm or heated about anything, a fact that is underscored by the etymology of the word nonchalant. It stems from Old French, where it was formed from the negative prefix non- plus chalant, the present participle of the verb chaloir, “to be concerned.” This in turn came from the Latin word calre, which from its concrete sense “to be hot or warm” developed the figurative sense “to be roused or fired with hope, zeal, or anger.” French formed a noun nonchalance from the adjective nonchalant that was borrowed into English by 1678; the adjective itself was borrowed later, as it is not attested for another half-century. So it appears that we borrowed _nonchalant_ directly from French without also borrowing the positive from which it derives. Man, I love etymology. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-called-when-a-words-derivitave-survives-its-defunct-root-word/144325/7 "2002-12-22T12:49:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by friedo \* > And decapitated. _Capitation_ lives on though - as a form of taxation and (usually medical) remuneration. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-called-when-a-words-derivitave-survives-its-defunct-root-word/144325/8 "2002-12-22T13:33:28Z")
“Uncanny” from the Scots “canny” for “natural.” ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-called-when-a-words-derivitave-survives-its-defunct-root-word/144325/9 "2002-12-22T17:10:20Z")
This thread is whelming. ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-called-when-a-words-derivitave-survives-its-defunct-root-word/144325/10 "2002-12-22T21:39:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hari Seldon \* > \*\*This thread is whelming. \*\* Well thank you…I think. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-called-when-a-words-derivitave-survives-its-defunct-root-word/144325/11 "2002-12-22T23:07:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Paul in Saudi \* > \*\*“Uncanny” from the Scots “canny” for “natural.” \*\* Canny is a living word. It means shrewd.