# What is it with Florida ?????? --FCAT **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 22, 2003, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805 "2003-05-22T13:33:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/1 "2003-05-22T13:33:19Z")
Watched CNN this morning about the controversy over the FCAT tests. CNN cited an example of a question on the test to two Florida educators one of whom “admitted” that this question was one of the more difficult, and the other educator and the CNN host both seemed oblivious to the absolute simplicity of the question. The question cited was best as I can remember "If a steel ball were dropped from a height of thirty meters at what height would the potential and kinetic energies be equal? CNN claimed that formulas were even provided!!! If the answer isn’t immediately obvious to an educator, then I think he/she better get re-educated. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/2 "2003-05-22T13:39:56Z")
What is the FCAT? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/3 "2003-05-22T13:49:53Z")
standardized state wide testing in Florida (have no idea what the letters, other than the “F” stand for) ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/4 "2003-05-22T13:55:51Z")
Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/5 "2003-05-22T14:17:29Z")
So English teachers should be good at physics? ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/6 "2003-05-22T14:21:09Z")
Is it for high school students? Is it on the drivers test? Is it part of the new voting system? Is anyone brave enough to post the answer? My guess, and IANAPhysicist is zero feet. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/7 "2003-05-22T14:26:38Z")
The FCATs test students at all levels (different tests for high school vs. middle school vs. elementary obviously) Suspect that question was on the high school test ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/8 "2003-05-22T14:42:34Z")
K=(1/2)mv [kinetic energy=one half \* mass\* velocity] U=mgh [potential energy= mass\* gravational constant (-10m/s for simplicity) \* height] There’s a way to it, but its’ been awhile (okay, two years, still). I remember having to set up a chart with U on one side and K on the other. I think **Zebra** is right, but there is another point towards the middle of the fall. While it may seem simple to someone who has had the course recently, it is involved work. Now if the question was “How many states are there in the US as of 2000?” and they got that wrong then I would wonder. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/9 "2003-05-22T14:58:52Z")
It’d be half way down. By conservation of energy, in a closed system, Kinetic + Potential is always equal. Before it starts falling, Potential is max and kinetic is zero. Just as it hits bottom, potential is zero and kinetic is max. Halfway down, potential is half what it was so kinetic has to be half what is was. So they have to be equal, right? I think ALL standardized tests like this are a travesty. Students are now taught to pass a test, nothing more. In Virginia we dealt with SOLs, here it’s FCAT, other states have other tests - they’re all the same. I hate them. I never had to take them and I hate them. Waste of time and effort and money. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/10 "2003-05-22T15:02:07Z")
While I agree that standardized tests suck, **FairyChatMom** , surely you recognize that there is a need to judge the performance of various schools and teachers relative to fixed criteria. I don’t know of any better method for accomplishing that. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/11 "2003-05-22T15:11:18Z")
I wouldn’t have problems with standardized tests if the schools didn’t teach the kids to take the test. Then we lived in Virginia, the teachers in the middle school bragged how they spent so much time preparing the kids for the SOL. That made no sense. The standardized tests should cover the material reqired to be taught. And the material should be taught, not with an eye on the tests, but with an eye to teaching the material. Seems to me if the kids learn the material, regurgitating it on a test is the easy part. Yeah, I know, I’m a dreamer… I’m so glad my kid passed her FCATs already and she can concentrate her efforts on the important stuff like her AP courses. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/12 "2003-05-22T15:47:21Z")
AP courses? You mean the ones that end with standardized tests? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CRorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CRorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CRorex)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/13 "2003-05-22T19:03:24Z")
you need equations to solve that? _LAUGHS_ Yeah, and the sad thing is people who need equations to solve that are allowed to teach science. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/14 "2003-05-22T19:19:06Z")
What percentage of students who can answer that correctly can also make change without a calculator? ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/15 "2003-05-22T19:47:20Z")
13,000 High School seniors are not graduating on time this year. They have failed the test every time the had the opportunity to take it, up to twice a year over the last five years, I think. If they have only been in this country a short time, or this state a short time, they have had fewer attempts. They can take it as often as they like after their scheduled graduation in order to get their diploma. As for the simplicity of the “hard” question, Florida breeds dummies. That’s why I’m leaving. ---
**Author:** ![XCchick22](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/e19b73/32.png) [@XCchick22](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XCchick22)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/16 "2003-05-22T20:52:16Z")
Ok I’m in 10th grade, and I just took the FCAT needed to graduate this year. The math questions are mostly very easy and some just involve reasoning. With the reading you just have to be able to comprehend the passage that you are given. It’s ridiculous when students do not pass this test. We go through literally **months** of training for it in all of our classes. And the practice that we do is state-mandated I believe and is basically a practice test. However, though the test is meant to test progress, it really does little to serve its purpose. Since we do that much practice, we’re just training for the test, and are taught the way to answer the questions. Just knowing the way the questions (especially on the reading) is enough to pass. Also, with this practice we actual miss out on other lessons. In English, we didn’t get to read one of thenovels we were supposed to because of this, and in History we didn’t get through all of the needed chapters. Also, the questions are largely varied, and even if you’re horrible at one or two things, you’ll pass. If you’re that bad at everything I believe you should not move on to the next grade anyway. What I believe needs to be done is to just give the test at different time throughout the year-- once at the beginning, maybe once in the middle, and once at the end–without any preparation. This way progress could be measured each year, and areas that needed work could be pinpointed. And in theory, the curriculum taught in class should be enough to pass the test anyway, so without preparation curriculum could also be measured for effectiveness. Just the .02 of a student in the system. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/17 "2003-05-22T21:04:45Z")
**XCchick22** , well said! I was just talking to my daughter this evening about these tests. She said they spent the first year or two teaching them how to pass the tests, and now they’re trying to unteach the techniques they emphasized before. What a waste of time and resources!! I’m sorry we ever returned to this state. ---
**Author:** ![fatmac98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3ec8ea/32.png) [@fatmac98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fatmac98)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/18 "2003-05-22T21:12:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grienspace \* > \*\* > > "If a steel ball were dropped from a height of thirty meters at what height would the potential and kinetic energies be equal? > > CNN claimed that formulas were even provided!!! If the answer isn’t immediately obvious to an educator, then I think he/she better get re-educated. \*\* What subject areas do the teachers you are slamming teach? That is probably something you should know before such an outlandish generalization. I’m a history teacher and wouldn’t have the first idea how to answer this question, I haven’t looked at physics since high school. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/19 "2003-05-22T21:21:47Z")
I’m a pretty smart guy, and I don’t know the answer. I could calculate it if you gave me the equations, but off the top of my head, FairyChatMom’s answer does not seem correct to me, since gravitational acceleration is geometric - seems to me that the steel ball has not yet gained half its kinetic energy halfway down. It gains more speed in the second half of the fall than in the first, does it not? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/20 "2003-05-23T00:28:48Z")
I’d think that most people who have had a minimal education should know the rudimentary relationship of potential to kinetic energy wrt to the position of a falling object relative to original and impact location. It’s been at least 40 years for me since I learned it in the Ontario school system. **FairyChatMom** gets it, and **RickJay** , I know you’re far smarter than you let on. You might explain to me how the potential energy converted in the first 15 meters is different than the potential energy converted in the second 15 meters. By the way the ball gains more speed in the second half of the fall, of course, but then don’t be surprised that the kinetic correspondingly increases as well. **fatmac98** , Are you suggesting that education is only worthwhile if you’re going to teach it. You have no excuse for you’re intellectual laziness. The solution to this problem demands logic and elementary physics. I’m wondering if they teach students how to think in the Bush states. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805.md?page=2)