# What is it with Florida ?????? --FCAT **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 22, 2003, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805 "2003-05-22T13:33:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ben\_Hicks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbce88/32.png) [@Ben\_Hicks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben_Hicks)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/21 "2003-05-23T01:00:59Z")
o ---
**Author:** ![Jaade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@Jaade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaade)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/22 "2003-05-23T01:07:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FairyChatMom \* > \*\ ***XCchick22** , well said! I was just talking to my daughter this evening about these tests. She said they spent the first year or two teaching them how to pass the tests, and now they’re trying to unteach the techniques they emphasized before. What a waste of time and resources!! I’m sorry we ever returned to this state. \*\* I don’t think the WHOLE state of Florida is regarded poorly in education, but I **think** the ones in J’ville seem to be a bit less challenged than kids in other communities. Maybe that’s where you went wrong. ~J ---
**Author:** ![DJScherr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@DJScherr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DJScherr)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/23 "2003-05-23T01:12:08Z")
I’ll put myself on a ledge and possibly make a fool out of myself… but I figure that the Kinetic and potential energy are the same when it’s lying on the ground… has no kenetic energy cause it’s lying there… and no potential energy cause it has no where to go. No math involved… just have to know the concept and think a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/24 "2003-05-23T01:29:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CRorex \* > \*\*you need equations to solve that? > > _LAUGHS_ > > Yeah, and the sad thing is people who need equations to solve that are allowed to teach science. \*\* [Sean Connery]|Of course you know that, its on the card![/SC] In all seriousness, that’s a pretty broad statement. Why should a geology teacher know that? Why should a biology teacher know that? Why should a 5th grade science teacher know that? Just because someone misses one test item that they might not have done in school, might not have seen in years, or might not have paid much attention to the first time around doesn’t make them a dolt or unfit to teach. So what is(are) the answer(s)? Remember, no formulas. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/25 "2003-05-23T03:23:31Z")
The potential energy problem is trivial as long as you know (1) KE + PE = constant, and (2) PE is proportional to height. Hence, the energies are equal when the mass has fallen half the distance. Most of the questions on the FCAT were like that (at least the examples I downloaded online). Many didn’t even require knowledge of the problem, but just the ability to think carefully. You can download sample questions [here](http://www.myfloridaeducation.com/sas/fcat/fcatit00.htm). ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/26 "2003-05-23T03:28:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Many didn’t even require knowledge of the problem, but just the ability to think carefully. And isn’t that what the test is all about, really? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/27 "2003-05-23T03:54:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wolfian \* > \*_K=(1/2)mv > [kinetic energy=one half \* mass_ velocity] > \*\* If you need formulas to solve this problem, at least get the formula right. > [@](#): > > - Wolfian\* > So what is(are) the answer(s)? Remember, no formulas Pay attention, there have been several posts that have provided the correct answer of halfway down ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/28 "2003-05-23T03:58:58Z")
**DJScherr** , an answer like that deserves a bonus. Bravo, I wish I had thought of it. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/29 "2003-05-23T04:06:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SmackFu \* > \*\*So English teachers should be good at physics? \*\* Thank YOU! Exactly what I was thinking, since when does unfamiliarity in a subject you don’t teach equal the educator being a good teacher? I’m terrible at math, the WORST, I’m math PHOBIC (I kid you not). But I’m damn good at my jobs (yes, jobS), and I’m fairly bright. At least that’s what my clients and coworkers seem to think. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/30 "2003-05-23T04:07:21Z")
Darn! that was supposed to be “equal the educator NOT being a good teacher”. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/31 "2003-05-23T04:14:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by emarkp \* > \*\*The potential energy problem is trivial as long as you know (1) KE + PE = constant, and (2) PE is proportional to height. Hence, the energies are equal when the mass has fallen half the distance. > > Most of the questions on the FCAT were like that (at least the examples I downloaded online). Many didn’t even require knowledge of the problem, but just the ability to think carefully. > > You can download sample questions [here](http://www.myfloridaeducation.com/sas/fcat/fcatit00.htm). \*\* Okay, so does the question need an equation to solve it, or doesn’t it? We’ve got (2?) people scoffing and sneering that it would need an equation, and then when someone asks “well what IS the answer” it’s answered with an equation. I think it’s pretty insulting to infer that people who don’t know a “simple” physics problem are stupid. Why would someone in an unrelated field know that just off the top of their heads? I’m still waiting for the answer to why this is so shocking or stupid on the part of the educators. ---
**Author:** ![Albert\_Rose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Albert\_Rose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Albert_Rose)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/32 "2003-05-23T04:14:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grienspace \* > \*\*I’d think that most people who have had a minimal education should know the rudimentary relationship of potential to kinetic energy wrt to the position of a falling object relative to original and impact location. \*\* One would hope, but one may be wrong. These young people do have bizarre tendencies to forget things that don’t interest them. > [@](#): > > **fatmac98** , Are you suggesting that education is only worthwhile if you’re going to teach it. You have no excuse for you’re intellectual laziness. I don’t believe **fatmac98** suggested that. No, I’m not going to correct your punctuation (Gaudere’s law and such). > [@](#): > > I’m wondering if they teach students how to think in the Bush states. Yes, we do, thank you very much. The hard part is convincing students to actually make the effort to think when they don’t really want to. It’s very frustrating working with unmotivated teenagers. It is also frustrating when dealing with unsupportive, scapegoat-finding grownups, too. ---
**Author:** ![fatmac98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3ec8ea/32.png) [@fatmac98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fatmac98)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/33 "2003-05-23T04:29:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grienspace \* > \*\* > > **fatmac98** , Are you suggesting that education is only worthwhile if you’re going to teach it. You have no excuse for you’re intellectual laziness. The solution to this problem demands logic and elementary physics. I’m wondering if they teach students how to think in the Bush states. \*\* No sir, I am not, please stop trying to put words into my mouth. I have no doubt that with maybe 5 minutes of explanation, I could answer this. Other than yourself, many of us tend to specialise as we grow older, perhaps forgetting things we once knew. Fortunately, I am quite used to those not in the educational field offering their $.02 with regard to how fucked up the system is, and how stupid the teachers are, and that back in the good old days, “we were so much smarter and better prepared than kids today.” Tell you what, why don’t you come on down here, and cover my second period class for a couple of days, your so smart, and evidently, I’m “intellectually lazy.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/34 "2003-05-23T04:39:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AlbertRose \* > No, I’m not going to correct your punctuation (Gaudere’s law and such). But you tried. I think you really meant to allude to my incorrect spelling of “your” Regardless, I will be more careful in future. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/35 "2003-05-23T05:12:55Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by fatmac98 \* Fortunately, I am quite used to those not in the educational field offering their $.02 with regard to how fucked up the system is, and how stupid the teachers are, and that back in the good old days, “we were so much smarter and better prepared than kids today.” Why is that fortunate for you? > [@](#): > > Tell you what, why don’t you come on down here, and cover my second period class for a couple of days, your so smart, and evidently, I’m “intellectually lazy.” \*\* You and I need to get our spelling of your/you’re down a bit better, even if we don’t _specialise_ in spelling. I have two daughters , one who has gone to college and the other in grade 6. I have yet to meet one of their teachers whom I didn’t admire. As a parent, the communication with the teachers has been wonderful and reassuring. My girls have accomplished so much more than I did in school at their stage.Considering all the horror stories one reads about in education, none of it has touched me. so don’t put me in that category you’re ranting about. Finally, I do have a specialty in composites, but I am still puzzled that even smart people like you can forget some elementary foundational principles that every high school graduate is exposed to. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/36 "2003-05-23T06:56:42Z")
[http://www.nhn.ou.edu/~kieran/reuhome/vizqm/5potdiag.htm](http://www.nhn.ou.edu/~kieran/reuhome/vizqm/5potdiag.htm) If gravity is not involved, that is, there are no outside actors, the logical answer seems to be true. [http://216.239.57.100/search?q=cache:G8hiW39EEDMJ:www.algarcia.org/fishbane/energy.pdf+kinetic+versus+potential+energy&hl=en&ie=UTF-8](http://216.239.57.100/search?q=cache:G8hiW39EEDMJ:www.algarcia.org/fishbane/energy.pdf+kinetic+versus+potential+energy&hl=en&ie=UTF-8) A more complicated answer… [http://studyphysics.iwarp.com/30/kepe.pdf](http://studyphysics.iwarp.com/30/kepe.pdf) A simpler answer. It’s 3 AM, anyone wanna try working it out for say, ten feet above a table? [http://lectureonline.cl.msu.edu/~mmp/labs/samplelab/sample.htm](http://lectureonline.cl.msu.edu/~mmp/labs/samplelab/sample.htm) EXACTLY what we were looking for. Rough eyeball seems to be that, yes, halfway is right. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/37 "2003-05-23T07:44:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CanvasShoes \* > \*\*I think it’s pretty insulting to infer that people who don’t know a “simple” physics problem are stupid. > > Why would someone in an unrelated field know that just off the top of their heads? > > I’m still waiting for the answer to why this is so shocking or stupid on the part of the educators. \*\* I believe the passing score is only 40%. Someone who doesn’t know any physics and doesn’t know enough math to substitute values in an equation can answer questions in other areas and still pass the exam. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/38 "2003-05-23T08:09:07Z")
Keep in mind that you only need to get 40% to pass, and you can take it 5 times. > [@](#): > > Okay, so does the question need an equation to solve it, or doesn’t it? We’ve got (2?) people scoffing and sneering that it would need an equation, and then when someone asks “well what IS the answer” it’s answered with an equation. **I** wasn’t scoffing or sneering, but I’m not sure you included me in your count. I used “PE + KE = constant” as shorthand for the relationship between potential and kinetic energy (i.e. their sum doesn’t change, so in a closed system, you have to give up one to gain the other). And really, that’s one of the basic ideas you should get from physics. And that was one of the hardest questions on the sample test I looked at. Since you only need to get 2/5 questions right, you actually don’t have to know any physics. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/39 "2003-05-23T09:45:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AlbertRose \* > \*\*One would hope, but one may be wrong. These young people do have bizarre tendencies to forget things that don’t interest them. > \*\* Just like the adults around them. 😉 **grienspace** , I thought the punctuation error referred to the lack of an interrogation mark at the end of a sentence that qualifies as a question. **emarkp** , you’re right, that question may be the most difficult of the test, which is mentioned in the OP. One teacher found the question difficult, while other two believed it was the simplest. I don’t mind that there are difficult questions in tests, that’s something to be expected. It’s not expected for every student to answer the difficult question, or for the experts who wrote the question to think everyone should know the answer. Ok, the last one may be expected from the professors, but they should have some common sense and knowledge that not everyone is interested in that topic and therefore won’t spend hours learning that material. And **december** gives a valid point. This is just one difficult question, you can just skip it and still pass with a good grade in other areas (and even in the physics area, if you answer the others correctly). ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805/40 "2003-05-23T10:11:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*I believe the passing score is only 40%. Someone who doesn’t know any physics and doesn’t know enough math to substitute values in an equation can answer questions in other areas and still pass the exam. \*\* I see, well I wasn’t trying to be snide regarding the OP, sorry if I sounded that way, I was more perplexed than anything. Since the OP concentrates on that one question, I didn’t realize that the CNN report was talking about the whole test. I just thought that it was a bit shortsighted of people to assume that people not knowing something not in their area of expertise were being “stupid” for not knowing a so-called simple question. Sorry if I misunderstood the intent of those posts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-florida-fcat/176805.md?page=3)