# What IS it with Republicans and not wanting to get vaccinated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 8, 2021, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004 "2021-11-08T21:26:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/41 "2021-11-09T15:34:17Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The Obama administration had already set up an organization to deal with a pandemic outbreak. Which Trump had largely dismantled, reducing the possibility of being alerted to the impending pandemic to virtually nil. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/42 "2021-11-09T16:28:01Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I blame Donald Trump. > > If the Republicans had chosen a normal Republican in 2016 - like say Ted Cruz - he would have been smart enough to see what to do when he was told about the approaching pandemic. He would have told people he was in charge and reaped all the credit for showing leadership during a major international crisis. > > Trump couldn’t see that. He initially downplayed the pandemic because prefers to ignore problems. Then he kept downplaying it because he didn’t want to admit his initial response had been wrong. Then when the problem became too big to downplay, he tried to put the blame on other people. His followers just went in whatever direction he told them to go. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > A pandemic was an ideal crisis for Trump. It’s not like a war or an economic collapse where he would have had to make difficult decisions. In a medical crisis, the scientists and doctors are going to do all the work. The Obama administration had already set up an organization to deal with a pandemic outbreak. All Trump needed to do was go on television and take the credit. But he managed to screw it up. > > In my opinion, Trump just didn’t understand the problem when his advisors tried to explain it to him. Trump may be able to understand something like a building or a car or a hundred dollar bill - because these are things you can point to and tell him what they are. But it wouldn’t be easy to get him to understand something abstract like the economy or the infrastructure - or a virus outbreak. It would take mental effort for Trump to grasp these things and he’s not interested in making an effort. @Little_Nemo, where do I subscribe to your newsletter? Well, and succinctly stated. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/43 "2021-11-09T16:30:39Z")
One characteristic of many (but of course not all) conservatives is that they _ **first** _ formulate an opinion, _ **then** _ try to find, or twist, evidence to support that opinion. And once they do lock themselves into that opinion, they cannot budge because to do so would mean admitting wrong. So, in 2020, many conservatives locked into the view that Covid is a hoax, or overblown. And once they did, they had to tailor their facts or behaviors to fit that viewpoint. One of those is that you can’t take the Covid vaccine, because doing so flies in the face of their locked-in view that Covid isn’t that bad or real. ---
**Author:** ![Steven\_Maven](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steven_maven/32/3272_2.png) [@Steven\_Maven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steven_Maven)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/44 "2021-11-09T17:03:10Z")
This is my understanding of the Republican position on COVID. Donald Trump, who can do no wrong, doesn’t get the credit he deserves from the mainstream media for fast-tracking the development of the vaccine, which is not effective against the disease, which is just a hoax and no worse than a mild flu. ---
**Author:** ![Steven\_Maven](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steven_maven/32/3272_2.png) [@Steven\_Maven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steven_Maven)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/45 "2021-11-09T17:05:46Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > I am so old I can remember when the anti-science, anti-vaccine people were left-wing people. I’m so old I can remember when Republicans hated Russia and loved the FBI. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/46 "2021-11-09T17:09:58Z")
> [@Steven\_Maven](#): > > Donald Trump, who can do no wrong, doesn’t get the credit he deserves from the mainstream media for fast-tracking the development of the vaccine, which is not effective against the disease, which is just a hoax and no worse than a mild flu. …and also a bioweapon made by Chy-na to kill Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/47 "2021-11-09T17:38:53Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > …and also a bioweapon made by Chy-na to kill Americans. … but not something that will kill you unless you’re fat and irresponsible. No, not fat like me, like other people. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/48 "2021-11-09T17:39:03Z")
I hope you realize that the vax is no longer preventing hospitalizations and deaths. The vaxxed percentages of hospitalizations are increasing rapidly. And even mainstream media is starting to ask questions about long term side effects: > **[Covid-19 Vaccines and Myocarditis Link Probed by Researchers](https://www.wsj.com/articles/researchers-probe-link-between-covid-19-vaccines-and-myocarditis-11636290002)** > > Several theories are under investigation by researchers seeking to explain heart-inflammation conditions among small numbers of vaccinated people. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/49 "2021-11-09T17:42:15Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > I hope you realize that the vax is no longer preventing hospitalizations and deaths. This is false. The vaccine is preventing hospitalizations and deaths. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/50 "2021-11-09T17:59:24Z")
[https://vermontdailychronicle.com/2021/09/30/76-of-september-covid-19-deaths-are-vaxxed-breakthroughs/](https://vermontdailychronicle.com/2021/09/30/76-of-september-covid-19-deaths-are-vaxxed-breakthroughs/) > **[More vaccinated people are dying of COVID-19. Here's what that means](https://wwmt.com/news/coronavirus/rise-in-breakthrough-deaths-should-not-cast-doubt-on-vaccines-experts-say)** > > Data from several states and the federal government suggests deaths among Americans fully vaccinated against COVID-19 rose sharply amid the nation’s most recent surge of infections, but experts say that is not unexpected as more of the population... ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/51 "2021-11-09T18:00:08Z")
This is really incorrect. If you are fully vaccinated, the chances of hospitalization or death is extremely lower than if you’re not vaccinated. No idea where you got such misinformation from. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/52 "2021-11-09T18:03:16Z")
Boy, that cite about Vermont is pretty convincing, provided you don’t read past the first sentence of the actual article: ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/53 "2021-11-09T18:04:33Z")
Right from your own cite: > “For example, there were a total of 33 deaths (as of 9/24) among fully vaccinated people since January. This is a fraction of a percent of the vaccinated population – now nearly 450,000 people age 12 and older. This is an indicator that vaccines are working to protect the vast majority of Vermonters from the worst outcomes. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/54 "2021-11-09T18:05:20Z")
It all boils down to a philosophy of “I’m not gonna let anyone tell ME what to do” that has been a core component of right wing propaganda over the past 20 years (yes, the irony of the fact that they ARE being told what to do by their various influencers is not lost on me.) Rather than a “civic responsibility” model of citizenship, that might have existed during earlier eras of Republicans in some form, the past 10-odd years have seen this model entirely swept away in favor of the “fuck everyone who doesn’t agree with me” which reached its apex during the Trump administration, fueled largely by social media. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/55 "2021-11-09T18:06:01Z")
You need to learn about base-rates and probability. 76% of COVID deaths being vaccinated in a state where every age group over 65 if at least 98% vaccinated is evidence that the vaccines are still working well at preventing death. Although perhaps not as well as they were 6 months ago, which is why boosters are now recommended for that age cohort and other at-risk persons. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/56 "2021-11-09T18:07:30Z")
There is [some discussion about waning effectiveness](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(21)00458-6/fulltext) of the vaccines, but it is too early to make any definitive declarations… _Although basic immunology findings predict that the vast majority of people would nevertheless have sufficient protection to avert any risk of infection, real-world data have been more salutary. Data from individuals who received the Pfizer–BioNTech mRNA vaccine BNT162b2, especially those over the age of 60 years, who were vaccinated early in the programme, show susceptibility to breakthrough infection caused by the delta variant. Breakthrough infections are correlated with diminished antibody titres, especially at 6 months or more after the second vaccine dose._ ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/57 "2021-11-09T18:07:47Z")
You’re just wrong – death rates for unvaccinated people are about 12x as high. Case rates for the unvaxxed are about 6 times as high. See here (may be paywalled if you don’t know the magic of incognito mode): [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html) You’re spreading COVID misinformation and you should be ashamed of yourself. You’re potentially causing illness and death for no good reason. Why would you do that? It’s just bizarre. Anyway, take a look at the real stats. I’ll await your mea culpa with bated breath. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/58 "2021-11-09T18:16:49Z")
If 76% of COVID deaths being vaccinated means that the vaccine is **working** , then what would the percentage be if the vaccine were **NOT working**? 90%? 100%? ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/59 "2021-11-09T18:17:58Z")
If the vaccine were completely ineffective, then the percentage of vaccinated deaths would match the vaccination rate. This should be obvious. To explain why, consider if the vaccination rate were 100%. What percentage of deaths would be of vaccinated people? ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/60 "2021-11-09T18:18:54Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > death rates for unvaccinated people are about 12x as high. Case rates for the unvaxxed are about 6 times as high. See here That shows data going all the way back to 2020 when nobody was vaxxed. It’s a neat statistical trick. What does the recent data show? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004.md?page=4)