# What IS it with Republicans and not wanting to get vaccinated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 8, 2021, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004 "2021-11-08T21:26:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/61 "2021-11-09T18:20:20Z")
You’re just bad at statistics. Let’s say that 900 out of 1000 people are vaccinated. Let’s say that there are 10 deaths, of which 7 are vaccinated. Then, you can say that 70% of the deaths were people who were vaccinated. It’s true! But, it’s 7 out of 900 rather than 3 out of 100. Here’s a math question for you: Which one shows a higher death rate? Has the vaccine prevented deaths? To bring this back on topic, are you saying that Republicans don’t want to get vaccinated because they don’t understand math? ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/62 "2021-11-09T18:22:00Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > What does the recent data show? The answer to your question is literally in the second article you posted earlier. For example: > [@](#): > > [In South Carolina](https://scdhec.gov/covid19/covid-19-data/cases-hospitalizations-deaths-among-not-fully-vaccinated), only about 10% of COVID-19 patients whose deaths were reported in June were fully vaccinated, according to the Department of Health and Environmental Control. In August and September, the vaccinated accounted for about 25% of COVID-related deaths. and > [@](#): > > A report [from the Oregon Health Authority](https://www.oregon.gov/oha/covid19/Documents/DataReports/Breakthrough-Case-Report.pdf) last week also showed breakthrough deaths spiked during the delta variant surge, representing 21% of COVID-19 deaths in the state in August and September. Prior to the summer, fewer than 10% of Oregon virus-related deaths involved the fully vaccinated. Maybe next time read your own articles before posting them? ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/63 "2021-11-09T18:22:28Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > You’re just bad at statistics. Let’s say that 900 out of 1000 people are vaccinated. Let’s say that there are 10 deaths, of which 7 are vaccinated. Then, you can say that 70% of the deaths were people who were vaccinated. It’s true! NY Times says Vermont is 72% vaxxed. So if 76% of deaths are vaxxed then that would mean it’s not working. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/64 "2021-11-09T18:23:23Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > NY Times says Vermont is 72% vaxxed. So if 76% of deaths are vaxxed then that would mean it’s not working. Again, bad at math. Do you believe that death rates for COVID are stable across all age populations? Do you believe that 72% number is stable across all age populations (hint: those under 12 couldn’t get vaccinated until last week)? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/65 "2021-11-09T18:24:48Z")
@agzem, it’s OK not to understand the statistics. It’s a tricky subject. Maybe open up a Factual Question thread and ask questions about base rate, conditional probability, etc. In the meantime, stop posting COVID misinformation because you’re going to get people killed. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/66 "2021-11-09T18:27:13Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > those under 12 couldn’t get vaccinated until last week)? Even at 12 and up it’s 81% to 76% deaths so that would mean it’s barely working. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/67 "2021-11-09T18:31:54Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > so that would mean it’s barely working To anyone reading this, this is simply false. @agzem doesn’t understand statistics. The vaccine is safe and effective. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/68 "2021-11-09T18:34:42Z")
I’ll just second what @RitterSport said. If you want a factual understanding of the vaccine breakthrough situation in Vermont a Factual Questions thread might be better. Hopefully the number of people taken in by this nonsense is small. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/69 "2021-11-09T18:38:15Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > NY Times says Vermont is 72% vaxxed. Your cite said 88%: > [@Vermont Daily Chronicle](#): > > Expressed in percentages, 76% of Vermont Covid-19 fatalities were breakthrough cases. As of Tuesday, 88 percent of all eligible Vermonters (age 12 and over) had been vaccinated with at least one shot. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/70 "2021-11-09T18:40:38Z")
Scroll down to the graphs called Rates for Vaccinated and Unvaccinated. Then, I’ll again await your mea culpa with bated breath. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/71 "2021-11-09T18:41:59Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Your cite said 88%: Link below at NYT is what I use. And note that with 72/81% vaxxed their cases are at record highs and hospitalizations and deaths are pretty high also: > **[Vermont Coronavirus Map and Case Count](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/vermont-covid-cases.html)** > > See the latest charts and maps of coronavirus cases, deaths, hospitalizations and vaccinations in Vermont. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/72 "2021-11-09T18:54:33Z")
Vermont is too small to draw any conclusions about anything, what Vermont does have is a current surge and a highly vaccinated population. By choosing to put disproportionate focus on Vermont (which does not even have one million residents), it’s basically doing the opposite of good data science. Looking at the much larger population of the United States will give you better data on which to make conclusions. The fact that Vermont is highly vaccinated will allow you to draw conclusions about the vaccine that aren’t accurate on a population wide basis. Vermont also historically has had much less covid than other States, so a “record surge” in Vermont means quite a bit less than it might nationwide. For example, during the previous covid-peak period for the _nation_, Vermont was averaging around 3 covid hospitalizations per 100k people. Ohio was averaging 9–300% higher. In fact during VT’s current surge, they are again averaging around 3 / 100k hospitalizations. Much lower than what was seen per 100k during the earlier pandemic spikes in other states. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/73 "2021-11-09T19:00:28Z")
The UK is doing a better job with covid data and this fact checking says it’s true that 82% of deaths there are vaxxed but says it’s not the “full story”. But I mean come on…is this really what we expected of the vaccines?? We’ve gone from “vaccines prevent infection” to “vaccines help to prevent death”. > **[Fact Check: In UK, Fully Vaccinated ARE 82% Of COVID-19 Deaths, 66% Of...](https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2021/11/fact-check-in-uk-fully-vaccinated-are-82-percent-of-covid-19-deaths-and-66-percent-of-hospitalizations-but-percentages-dont-tell-full-story.html)** > > Do fully vaccinated people account for 82% of recent COVID-19 deaths and 66% of hospitalizations in the UK? Yes, that's... ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/74 "2021-11-09T19:02:25Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > You need to learn Could’ve stopped right there. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/75 "2021-11-09T19:02:59Z")
Aaron Rodgers, is that you? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/76 "2021-11-09T19:07:32Z")
No vaccine prevents all infections or all deaths, you can actually see the results of the large studies done on these vaccines which show the percentages of exposed people and how many subsequently went on to get covid. None of the vaccines are anywhere close to 100% protective. Additionally, all of the initial studies were done on variants that are no longer predominant, and we know from additional data that the delta variant succeeds in causing breakthrough infections more frequently than the variant that was predominant when the current generation vaccines were being developed. And finally, we also now know after months of additional data that the vaccines start to drop off after 6 months in terms of efficacy. It’s actually somewhat important to understand this, because if you were under the impression the vaccine was magical and was promising you “absolute protection”, you were under a very false impression that should be corrected. I’ve been vaccinated many times and been on this earth many years. When you say “is this really what we expected of the vaccines?” My answer would be yes. I cannot think of any disease for which I am vaccinated where it isn’t well understood that the vaccines do not have 100% efficacy in preventing disease. What the data you are parroting without context misses is that **on population scale, people with the same sets of comorbidities, the ones who are vaccinated are far less likely to get sick and far more likely to survive if they are vaccinated.** As the population in many countries gets very high rates of vaccination–particularly the age 65+ population which is massively out of bounds higher likelihood of death than other age cohorts, it should not be surprising when there are more vaccinated people in hospitals than there are unvaccinated people–this is actually to be expected in a population where very high percentages of those likely to be hospitalized are vaccinated. For example in Vermont something like 98% of the population over age 70 is vaccinated. So if you asked me of the age 70+ covid patients in Vermont, what % would be vaccinated, I would **absolute expect it to be the majority, i.e. greater than 50%** , just because breakthrough infections are real and since the vaccinated population is basically almost 50 times as large in that age cohort the breakthrough infections will be bigger than the total infections of the unvaccinated. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/77 "2021-11-09T19:11:54Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > We’ve gone from “vaccines prevent infection” to “vaccines help to prevent death”. What level of efficacy in preventing death would make it worthwhile? Because even the worst-case good-faith analysis of the UK data show the death rates 3x (80+ population) to 5x (60-79) higher in the unvaccinated population. Surely a 3x improvement in survival would make it worth getting vaccinated, right? And that’s without considering the fact of the overlap between those most likely to die from COVID and those for whom vaccines are the least effective. This isn’t just fun and games tricks with math. There are real people dying from this nonsense. My wife sees them every day. They say things like “I didn’t think COVID was serious” or “somebody told me the vaccines didn’t work”. Then they go to the hospital and a heartbreaking number of them die. And this happens over and over and over. Please stop pushing this crap that you clearly don’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![Delayed\_Reflex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/delayed_reflex/32/3172_2.png) [@Delayed\_Reflex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delayed_Reflex)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/78 "2021-11-09T19:12:46Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > The UK is doing a better job with covid data and this fact checking says it’s true that 82% of deaths there are vaxxed but says it’s not the “full story”. But I mean come one…is this really what we expected of the vaccines?? We’ve gone from “vaccines prevent infection” to “vaccines help to prevent death”. There is a very good reason for the majority of deaths being made up of vaccinated people - because the demographics of the highest risk populations are overwhelmingly vaccinated. The [70+ age group is close to 95% vaccinated in England](https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55274833). That means that vaccinated people in that age group outnumber unvaccinated people 20:1 - and most deaths still happen in these older age groups. From what I recall, a vaccinated old person still has about the same likelihood of dying of COVID as an unvaccinated middle-aged person - but an unvaccinated old person has like a 5-10x chance of dying relative to a vaccinated one. I am not sure what message you are getting out of the articles that you are posting, but “vaccines don’t work” should not be the message at all. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/79 "2021-11-09T19:16:00Z")
FWIW there is a reason that statistics frequently use “per 100,000” population, because it can remove various things that may give wrong impressions. For example, imagine a country where 95% of the population for some reason is under age 35. That country is in the midst of a pandemic, now in any given hospital, who will most of the patients be? They will be people under the age of 35. Does that mean people under the age of 35 are at the **greatest risk**? We can’t know that from the information presented to this point. But if you divide the age bands into cohorts, and then look at rates of hospitalization and deaths per 100k, instead of absolute numbers or absolute percentages, you might find for example that the tiny sliver of the population over age 35 in this hypothetical country is actually 5x more likely to die of the pandemic. The exact same thing is basically being seen in highly vaccinated areas that are having more surges. For example Singapore is having a similar situation–more vaccinated people are dying than unvaccinated, and more vaccinated people than unvaccinated are going to the hospital with covid. But Singapore is highly vaccinated, so that “absolute count” really has no risk-analysis meaning. Instead, you need to look at the rates of hospitalization and death **per 100,000** for the unvaccinated and the vaccinated. Luckily Singapore’s Ministry of Health has already done that for us–see this image: [FDIO4b3XoAgiOOw (1211×663) (twimg.com)](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FDIO4b3XoAgiOOw?format=jpg&name=large) What this image correctly identifies is that even though more in terms of absolute numbers are coming in vaccinated now, population-adjusted, the unvaccinated simply remain at substantially higher risk of being hospitalized and of dying. The data is unequivocal. For those who don’t like images in Singapore: **Per 100k Unvaccinated Singaporeans** - 4.5 / 100k are Critically ill / ICU - 0.9 / 100k are dying **Per 100k Vaccinated Singaporeans** - 0.5 / 100k are Critically ill / ICU - 0.1 / 100k are dying For the innumerate–that shows a **nine times** greater chance of dying of covid if you are unvaccinated, and a 9x multiple for ending up in the ICU / critically ill. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/80 "2021-11-09T19:19:13Z")
Unvaxxed deaths : “People are dying from covid because they are stupid” Vaxxed deaths: “People are dying from covid because they are elderly and have several comorbidities. It’s all explained with statistics” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004.md?page=5)