# What IS it with Republicans and not wanting to get vaccinated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 8, 2021, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004 "2021-11-08T21:26:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/101 "2021-11-09T19:53:41Z")
You are aware, I assume, that that is a chart for VE-I, not VE-D. That is, vaccine effectiveness against infection. Everybody who has a passing understanding of COVID-19 is aware that the Delta variant is dramatically more infectious than earlier variants. You may, in fact, be aware that many scientists were initially highly concerned that the vaccines would be rather ineffective against Delta at all. Fortunately that has not proved to be the case as VE-I remains reasonably robust (although more like 50% than 90% against earlier strains) and VE-D is still very high, particularly for the mRNA vaccines. If you did in fact read the study (you did, right?) you would see that the authors attributed much of the decline in VE-I to the increased prevalence of the delta strain. Some may be due to a weakening of the immune response from vaccination - although I believe the strongest evidence of that is actually the Israeli data not this VA study. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/102 "2021-11-09T19:54:11Z")
Here you go: [https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm0620](https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm0620) Some quotes: > Risk of death after SARS-CoV-2 infection was highest in unvaccinated Veterans regardless of age and comorbidity > Benefits of vaccination in reducing risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection and death are clearly supported by this study of more than 780,225 U.S. Veterans. > Yet, despite increasing risk of infection due to the Delta variant, VE-D remained high, and compared to unvaccinated Veterans, those fully vaccinated had a much lower risk of death after infection. These results demonstrate an urgent need to reinstate multiple layers of protection, such as masking and physical distancing – even among vaccinated persons – while also bolstering current efforts to increase vaccination. @agzem, Again, thanks for bringing to our attention yet more evidence that vaccination is important. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/103 "2021-11-09T19:55:05Z")
You mean the same study that concluded: > [@your cite once again](#): > > “Importantly, vaccination still provided protection against death in infected persons, and this benefit was observed for the Moderna, Pfizer-BioNTech, and Janssen vaccines during the Delta surge, although the benefit was greater for Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech compared to Janssen vaccines. Our findings support the conclusion that COVID-19 vaccines remain the most important tool to prevent infection and death.” If you value this study’s work so highly, why do you keep ignoring that part? ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/104 "2021-11-09T20:00:32Z")
Yes all studies have to adhere to the current narrative regardless of the findings in order to get published. If they had claimed that the vaccines didn’t work they wouldn’t get published. This has been noted in the peer review journal BMJ about mask studies: “… Danish mask study that was well done, showed masks didn’t work. The **journal said if they wanted it published, the authors would have to come to a conclusion that masks worked** ” > **[The curious case of the Danish mask study](https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4586)** > > DANMASK-19, the first trial of mask use during covid-19, was “negative.” Masks didn’t work. We knew this before the trial was published because we were told so on social media. The authors were reported by the media to be struggling to find a major... ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/105 "2021-11-09T20:01:00Z")
What antivax website or group is supplying you with the links and posts you’re making? ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/106 "2021-11-09T20:03:46Z")
Imagine if I had asked you what pharmaceutical company or lobbying group is supplying you with the links and posts you’re making? Would that be fair? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/107 "2021-11-09T20:03:46Z")
You are the one spinning a narrative here. Narrative has to be one of the most abused words in the English language these days. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/108 "2021-11-09T20:04:17Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > Yes all studies have to adhere to the current narrative regardless of the findings in order to get published. If Nefarious Forces are preventing medical journals from publishing studies with conclusions they don’t like, why are they not similarly preventing medical journals from published studies with data they don’t like? Wouldn’t it support their Nefarious Agenda better if the studies were wholly falsified, instead of just partially? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/109 "2021-11-09T20:04:22Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > Imagine if I had asked you what pharmaceutical company or lobbying group is supplying you with the links and posts you’re making? Would that be fair? I’m just looking to cut out the middle man. We can save a lot of time that way. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/110 "2021-11-09T20:04:49Z")
They have to only partially rig it so that the “truth seekers” of antivax land can prove how evil and dumb they are. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/111 "2021-11-09T20:05:06Z")
> **Off-Topic Post hidden** > > Pharmaceutical companies give Republican politicians tons and tons of money so that they won’t let us negotiate drug prices. Your own side are the ones most in the pockets of big Pharma. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/113 "2021-11-09T20:05:51Z")
**Modhat** : Now this is off-topic. Please no one reply to this post. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/115 "2021-11-09T20:06:28Z")
From the article you just shared: _Except that if you read the published paper you find almost the exact opposite. The trial is inconclusive rather than negative, and it points to a likely benefit of mask wearing to the wearer—it did not examine the wider potential benefit of reduced spread of infection to others—and this even in a population where mask wearing isn’t mandatory and prevalence of infection is low._ I suggest stop feverishly posting here and push back the keyboard for a while. Maybe read some of the comments and links people here are sharing with you, and try to understand things a bit more. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/116 "2021-11-09T20:16:30Z")
And also no big deal because the sniffles I had last month were probably Covid (which is a hoax and not real), so I am immune anyway and don’t need a vaccine ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/117 "2021-11-09T20:32:39Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Trump may be able to understand something like a building or a car or a hundred dollar bill - because these are things you can point to and tell him what they are OK, I’ve only read this far in the thread; but I’m getting a scene in my head. Advisor: This is a car. Can you say 'car? Trump: Building? Actually I suspect explaining anything to Trump is like explaining [small, and far away](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh5kZ4uIUC0). ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/118 "2021-11-09T21:07:17Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > Yes all studies have to adhere to the current narrative regardless of the findings in order to get published. If they had claimed that the vaccines didn’t work they wouldn’t get published. This has been noted in the peer review journal BMJ about mask studies: Now you’re just pushing conspiracy theories. That’s not how Fighting Ignorance is done. If you’re starting to feel that everyone here is fighting you, well, Fighting Ignorance is what we do here. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/119 "2021-11-09T21:12:11Z")
I seem to recall Sedona, AZ also had a lot of lefty crystal new-age horseshit. Is that still true? I visited the place when I was a kid when we lived in Phoenix. Perhaps the most beautiful place I’d ever seen before or since. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/120 "2021-11-09T22:07:21Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Now you’re just pushing conspiracy theories. Exactly. The British Medical Journal that’s been around since 1840 is promoting crazy conspiracy theories. Here’s another one of their conspiracy theories: > **[Covid-19: Researcher blows the whistle on data integrity issues in Pfizer’s...](https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635)** > > Revelations of poor practices at a contract research company helping to carry out Pfizer’s pivotal covid-19 vaccine trial raise questions about data integrity and regulatory oversight. Paul D Thacker reports > > In autumn 2020 Pfizer’s chairman and... ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/121 "2021-11-09T22:13:25Z")
Are you ever going to acknowledge the quotes _from your own damn cites_ that say the opposite of what you’re claiming? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004/122 "2021-11-09T22:17:40Z")
With al the errors of fact and bad logic posted by **agzem** , the thread has wandered away from the question in the OP. We can see the ways in which **agzem** flails about attempting to defend an indefensible position, but we are not getting the Why behind that position that was sought in the OP. It would be interesting to discover the WHY and what sort of reasoning leads to that WHY, but I am afraid that we can only see the odd reaction without being able to discover the actual WHY. Very unfortunate. Does anyone recall the AOL poster who was strongly anti-vaxx based on her declared belief that a serious fever and possible brain damage in miniscule numbers of children weighed more heavily than the well demonstrated (and quite frequent) deaths from measles and whooping cough? Her position was that if any vaccine that was supposed to be protective could ever cause harm in one person, that overrode the protection that such a vaccine could provide for hundreds of thousands. (I remember her name, but I am not going to bring it up for fear of encouraging personal attacks.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-republicans-and-not-wanting-to-get-vaccinated/954004.md?page=7)