# What is it with Spanish heritage and long names? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 11, 2008, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-spanish-heritage-and-long-names/476663 "2008-12-11T02:38:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-spanish-heritage-and-long-names/476663/1 "2008-12-11T02:38:05Z")
[RIGHT]“You can write a small letter to Grandma in the filename.” - Forbes Burkowski[/RIGHT] It wasn’t Los Angeles, it was El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles de la Porciúncula. It wasn’t San Jose, it was El Pueblo de San José de Guadalupe. And we all know about the multi-generational effort that is the full and complete Spanish personal name. Why is one of the hallmarks of Spanish heritage names that don’t fit on most computerized forms? In addition, why do we seem to pick two words out of those names at random to use as our names for those towns? …San José… -\> San Jose I get, but …los Ángeles… -\> Los Angeles mystifies me. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-spanish-heritage-and-long-names/476663/2 "2008-12-11T03:13:13Z")
We do much the same thing in formal names of communities in English. Look at the definitions section in a municipal contract: “‘City’ shall mean the municipal government of the City of Saint Paul, in the County of Ramsay and State of Minnesota.” The Spanish names were adaptations of the names given out by Franciscan friar missionaries, who would found missions and name them after the feast day on which they were founded. The City of Santa Cruz, for example, grew up around the Mission de Santa Cruz, founded on September 14, Holy Cross Day on the Church calendar. Now, breaking down L.A.'s name, “El Pueblo” designates it as a _pueblo_, the legal term for the urbanized area that grew up around a mission in the Viceroyalty of Mexico in Spanish America. The rest of it commemorates the ruined church that St. Francis restored, the anniversary of its rededication being a feast among the Friars Minor (Franciscans). That church was named, in Italian, “the Church of our Lady Queen of (the) Angels of the Little Portion” – and the sesquipedalian Spanish is a literal translation of that. From it we extracted “Los Angeles” (“the angels”) for the modern English short form. One wonders about some of them, though: Holy Faith, NM, makes sense, as does Fat Cottonwood, also in NM. But why Rat Mouth, FL, or Red Stick, LA? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-spanish-heritage-and-long-names/476663/3 "2008-12-11T08:11:15Z")
A woman called María de los Ángeles is likely to be nicknamed Mariángeles or Ángeles; almost never María or Mari (these are reserved for women who are called only María, with no extras). The town’s name has the exact same process, it was probably called Los Ángeles since the minutes between deciding on the name and writing it down. As my dad told a Registrar who complained that our first lastname was too long for the form: “no, your form is too short.” ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-spanish-heritage-and-long-names/476663/4 "2008-12-11T08:27:00Z")
I did not know that [the State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhode_Island) was of Spanish origin. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-spanish-heritage-and-long-names/476663/5 "2008-12-11T20:51:17Z")
What about peoples’ names? María Rosario Pilar Martínez Molina Moquiere de les Esperades Santa Ana Romanguera y de la Najosa Rasten (aka Charo) is quite a mouthful. When she was enrolled in school, did her report card simply say “Maria Rasten”? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-spanish-heritage-and-long-names/476663/6 "2008-12-11T20:57:31Z")
Probably Martinez, since that is the first last name that shows up in that whole string of last names. Says someone who goes by two hyphenated last names and is somewhat annoyed every time they call her by the second of those last names. I thought by hyphenating they would get that the first last name was the one to be used first!!! OTOH, great way of identifying telemarketers and spam letters. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-spanish-heritage-and-long-names/476663/7 "2008-12-11T20:58:09Z")
Commonly in Spanish culture people have one or two given names and then the father’s and the mother’s family names. It makes sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_Bowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@Doug\_Bowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Bowe)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-spanish-heritage-and-long-names/476663/8 "2008-12-11T21:27:14Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > … But why Rat Mouth, FL, or Red Stick, LA? I actually knew the last one, but thought you’d want a cite. > **[Baton Rouge, Louisiana](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baton_Rouge,_Louisiana)** > > Baton Rouge (/ˌbætən ˈruːʒ/ ⓘ BAT-ən ROOZH; French: Bâton-Rouge, .mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}pronounced \[bɑtɔ̃ ʁuʒ\] ⓘ) is the capital city of the U.S. state of Louisiana. It had a population of 227,470 at the 2020 United States census, making it Louisiana's second-most populous city. It is the seat of Louisiana's most populous... Baton Rouge dates back to 1699, when French explorer Sieur d’Iberville leading an exploration party up the Mississippi River saw a reddish cypress pole festooned with bloody animals and fish that marked the boundary between Houma and Bayou Goula tribal hunting grounds. They called the tree “le bâton rouge,” or red stick. No idea about Rat Mouth, tho. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-spanish-heritage-and-long-names/476663/9 "2008-12-11T21:42:40Z")
Place names? Logic? Hardly. The British cities of Kingston-upon-Hull and Newcastle-upon-Tyne end up being commonly called Hull and Newcastle respectively. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-spanish-heritage-and-long-names/476663/10 "2008-12-11T21:49:07Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > But why Rat Mouth, FL Perhaps better translated as “Mouse Inlet,” _boca_ (mouth) being used for a narrow inlet from the sea or passage between a headland and an island, etc (Bocas del Toro, Boca del Drago), and _raton_ usually meaning “mouse” rather than “rat” (which is _rata_). ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-spanish-heritage-and-long-names/476663/11 "2008-12-11T21:57:44Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > That church was named, in Italian, “the Church of our Lady Queen of (the) Angels of the Little Portion” I always thought it would be much cooler if they called it Little Portion instead of Los Angeles. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-spanish-heritage-and-long-names/476663/12 "2008-12-11T23:51:10Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] We do much the same thing in formal names of communities in English. Look at the definitions section in a municipal contract: “‘City’ shall mean the municipal government of the City of Saint Paul, in the County of Ramsay and State of Minnesota.” [/QUOTE] I don’t know that those extra descriptors qualify as actual parts of the name. Legal contracts are all about being explicitly clear, and to avoid confusing the city of Saint Paul, Minnesota, with the city of Saint Paul, New Mexico. [QUOTE=sailor] I did not know that the State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations was of Spanish origin. [/QUOTE] He said that Spanish did that. He did not say that the Spanish were the only ones that did that. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-spanish-heritage-and-long-names/476663/13 "2008-12-12T01:53:42Z")
> [@Doug\_Bowe](#): > > I actually knew the last one, but thought you’d want a cite. > > [Baton Rouge, Louisiana - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baton_Rouge,_Louisiana) > Baton Rouge dates back to 1699, when _ **French** _ explorer Sieur d’Iberville leading an exploration party up the Mississippi River saw a reddish cypress pole festooned with bloody animals and fish that marked the boundary between Houma and Bayou Goula tribal hunting grounds. They called the tree “le bâton rouge,” or red stick. > No idea about Rat Mouth, tho. Emphasis added: not a Spanish name, though Palo Alto, California (big stick or, more idiomatially, tall tree) shows the French are not alone in their stick placenames.