# What is it with the spelling in rap/hip-hop music? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 23, 2003, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-the-spelling-in-rap-hip-hop-music/176968 "2003-05-23T03:39:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-the-spelling-in-rap-hip-hop-music/176968/21 "2003-05-23T18:10:19Z")
It isn’t just rap that is guilty. The two that come to mind are “Nothing Compares 2 U” by Sinead O’Connor, and “Sk8r Boyz” by that adorable little Avril chick. All it does, in my opinion, is make the artist look illiterate and under-educated. It reminds me of the class-election posters we used to do in grade school, “Dave Smith 4 Prez”. They R so kewl!!! ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-the-spelling-in-rap-hip-hop-music/176968/22 "2003-05-23T19:42:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Q.E.D. \* > **I hope you’re kidding. What’s wrong with spelling things _the way they’re supposed to be spelled_?** You realize, of course, that consistent and standardized spelling is a fairly recent linguistic innovation, comparatively speaking. Have you ever tried reading Shakespeare, the best writer in the English language, in the original Folio printings? I even have an early-19th-century hardbound edition of Shakespeare’s histories that have his name as “Shakspear” on the spine. It seems to me that there’s a rather dark undercurrent of ownership in the complaints about alternate spelling choices. “How dare _they_ try to hijack _our_ language.” A simple maxim: Grammar is the way the language was spoken yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-the-spelling-in-rap-hip-hop-music/176968/23 "2003-05-23T20:17:52Z")
It’s rare for a girl as sweet an’ pretty as Laura to be domestic! -Amanda from Tennessee Williams’s “The Glass Menagerie” Sweet Be’mis’ster, that bist a-bound/ By green an’ woody hills all round,/ Wi’ hedges, reachen up between/ A thousan’ vields o’ zummer green,/ Where elems’ lofty heads do drow/ Their sheades vor hay-meakers below,/ An’ wild hedge-flow’rs do charm the souls/ O’ maidens in their evenén strolls. -from William Barnes “Be’mi’ster” “Ah, go boil yer heads, both of yeh,” said Hagrid. “Harry–yer a wizard.” -from J.R. Rowling’s Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s (Philospher’s) Stone Idiots, the lot of 'em. **KGS** , you’re either very funny or very clueless. Either way I’m laughing. Don’t take this to mean that I think everyone should write as they talk. Standardized spelling is damned important for things like science reports, government documents (imagine trying to do taxes in valley girl), and other stuff where large numbers need to understand. In the arts allow some poetic license. Yes, all music, including the “bad” stuff, is art. It is up to the viewer to decide whether it is good or bad. Now if you excuse me I have to get dirrty and walk the dog in this bad weather. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2003, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-the-spelling-in-rap-hip-hop-music/176968/24 "2003-05-24T03:03:23Z")
You haven’t seen decomposed English until you’ve paid a visit to _Riddley Walker_’s world. > [@](#): > > Lorna said to me, ‘You know Riddley theres some thing in us it dont have no name.’ > > I said, ‘What thing is that?’ > > She said, ‘Its some kind of thing it aint us but yet its in us. Its looking out thru our eye hoals. May be you dont take no noatis of it only some times. Say you get woak up suddn in the middl of the nite. 1 minim youre a sleap and the nex youre on your feet with a spear in your han. Wel it wernt you put that spear in your han it wer that other thing whats looking out thru your eye hoals. It aint you nor it don’t even know your name. Its in us lorn and loan and sheltering how it can.’ > > I said, ‘If its in every 1 of us theres moren 1 of it theres got to be a manying theres got to be a millying and mor.’ > > Lorna said, ‘Wel there is a millying and mor.’ > > I said, ‘Wel if theres such a manying of it whys it lorn then whys it loan?’ > > She said, ‘Becaws the manying and the millying its all 1 thing it dont have nothing to gether with. You look at lykens on a stoan its all them tiny manyings of it and may be each part of it myt think its sepert only we can see its all 1 thing. Thats how it is with what we are its all 1 girt big thing and divvyt up amongst the many. Its all 1 girt thing bigger nor the worl and lorn and loan and oansome. Tremmering it is and feart. It puts us on like we put on our cloes. Some times we dont fit. Some times it cant fynd the arm hoals and it tears us a part.’ ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2003, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-the-spelling-in-rap-hip-hop-music/176968/25 "2003-05-24T07:06:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*\*Mairzy doats and dozy doats > And liddle lamzy divey, > A kiddlely divey too, wouldn’t you? > > * * * Those darn kids, what are they thinking? ---
**Author:** ![SteveSteve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SteveSteve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveSteve)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2003, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-the-spelling-in-rap-hip-hop-music/176968/26 "2003-05-24T15:14:03Z")
Sorry I don’t have a cite but I seem to remember reading that at least the name part (JayZ, Ludacris) came from the practice of having “street names” that has been around for a long time (the thing i read was about 50’s LA and said it was old by then). The idea being that the cops won’t know who you are talking about or to, especially among urban black people due to the (fair or unfair…well, unfair) “extra attention” they got from the police. Having a “street name” gives you “street cred”. Also if you actually have a real “street name” due to your background, even better, you turn a disadvantage into an advantage. As far as spelling regular words differently I think we got a couple things going on, but this is just my non- professional opinion. First, which relates to what I just wrote, is “street lingo”, using 5-0 instead of police (I know that is an old one, but so am I), same idea, you get “street cred” and/or that is how you and your friends talk. Second is exclusionary slang/lingo, which virtually every human social group uses. Lastly it kind of looks cool, although it can get pretty out of hand some times. So much so that old grey boy crackers like myself can’t understand what they are saying, which I am sure is completely intentional. PS - Not to make a blanket statement or anything, but a note to all the people who complained about the alternate spelling because it “isn’t proper english” or “makes the artist look illiterate”. Anyone talking about how the kids today (even if you are still a “kid” yourself) don’t make any sense with their crazy fill-in-the-blank (hair, lyrics, clothes, etc.) sounds like a total nob. 🙂 or should I say nizzob… ---
**Author:** ![I\_can\_t\_believe\_that\_s\_butter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@I\_can\_t\_believe\_that\_s\_butter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_can_t_believe_that_s_butter)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2003, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-the-spelling-in-rap-hip-hop-music/176968/27 "2003-05-24T17:09:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GargoyleWB \* > \*\*It isn’t just rap that is guilty. > > The two that come to mind are “Nothing Compares 2 U” by Sinead O’Connor, and “Sk8r Boyz” by that adorable little Avril chick. > \*\* I’m sure you didn’t _intend_ to give Ms. Lavigne credit; it’s “Sk8r _Boi_”. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2003, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-the-spelling-in-rap-hip-hop-music/176968/28 "2003-05-24T17:59:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GargoyleWB \* > … **“Nothing Compares 2 U” by Sinead O’Connor** Although O’Connor had a hit with it, the song and title were written by Prince, who also gave us the immortal “Jack U Off” back in 1981. ---
**Author:** ![eyedea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ed655f/32.png) [@eyedea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eyedea)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-the-spelling-in-rap-hip-hop-music/176968/29 "2003-05-24T23:18:44Z")
First of all, what the hell does weird al’s cd have to do with anything? That guy’s gay and white- no relevance to rap. Second of all, that’s how people talk where those guys grew up. I can’t think of one rapper who didn’t come from a project or a poor family. People are illiterate and there is a thing called slang. Culture rubs off on people and the culture in the projects is full of slang and illiteracy. What youre asking, is like asking why an asian immigrant cant pronounce fried rice (for exapmle). I am saddened as a teen by your horrible attempts to analyze this question logically. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-the-spelling-in-rap-hip-hop-music/176968/30 "2003-05-25T00:13:36Z")
Let me try to break it down for you, **eyedea** > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by eyedea \* > **First of all, what the hell does weird al’s cd have to do with anything? That guy’s gay and white- no relevance to rap.** While I don’t know anything about his sexual preference, I know that Weird Al is Causian. I also know he did “Omish Paradise,” a rap song, satrical, but still rap. What does Al’s race and preference have to do with rap. What about Eninem and those guys from Boston who did “Jump Around?” Maybe Weird Al did another rap song and used “rap spellings.” I don’t follow him. > [@](#): > > **Second of all, that’s how people talk where those guys grew up.** Right, see above posts. We talked about this. > [@](#): > > **I can’t think of one rapper who didn’t come from a project or a poor family.** Neither can I, but I’m not a big rap fan. Then again, plenty of other musicians came out of poverty and their songs are spelled “correctly.” > [@](#): > > **People are illiterate and there is a thing called slang.** Universal public education, man. While everyone in the projects might not have graduatated high school, most have enough education to read and write, but what does reading and writing have to do with slang. Slang is spoken. > [@](#): > > **Culture rubs off on people and the culture in the projects is full of slang and illiteracy.** I already covered illiteracy, but yes slang does “rub off.” > [@](#): > > **What youre asking, is like asking why an asian immigrant cant pronounce fried rice (for exapmle).** Close, but no cigar. Maybe he can’t say it, but with a little bit of education he can spell it. > [@](#): > > \*\*I am saddened as a teen by your horrible attempts to analyze this question logically. \*\* I am saddened by your response. As a teen? What right does that give you? Are you a rapper? Are you from the projects? What’s wrong with logic? Oh, because they’re Black they’re ignorant savages? What’s your deal? Horrible attempts? I think we did darn good. So good in fact I think the question has been answered. If you want to discuss this more may I suggest MPSIMS or the Pit.\* \*No, I’m not trying to play Mod, but really, where else can we go from here. I wouldn’t mind a discussion, but not here. ---
**Author:** ![StanDup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@StanDup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StanDup)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-the-spelling-in-rap-hip-hop-music/176968/31 "2003-05-25T00:24:16Z")
snip > [@](#): > > It looks to me like how I hear some southern ebonics. I am no authority on this, but the “r” sound to end a word can sometimes come out sounding more like “arruh”. \>snip\< I agree, some words are from The South, but some spellings and pronounciations are made up, or spelled how they are pronounced. Take Holla, for example, who’s going to say “Holler back, young one!” when it sounds better and goes with the song to say "Holla back, youngin’! "? Sometmes it’s all a matter of what sounds better with a beat and what does not. ---
**Author:** ![3trew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/13edae/32.png) [@3trew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3trew)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-the-spelling-in-rap-hip-hop-music/176968/32 "2003-05-25T04:51:39Z")
OMG LOL bcuz itz 2KEWL!!11!!1! Once we figure out rap, we should move on to the “Kwik Kopy” style of business naming. I’m pretty sure that the impetus to spell things differently to show that you’re hip doesn’t apply there. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-the-spelling-in-rap-hip-hop-music/176968/33 "2003-05-25T05:31:44Z")
Prince loves doing funky spellings - I think today’s internet-slang lo… I mean, **U** sers owe him a lot. 😉 And didn’t Sly and the Family Stone have a hit with Thank You (Falletin Me Be Mice Elf Agin) way before rap was big? Many rappers come from an underprivileged background, but I bet the Beastie Boys didn’t. Anyway, here’s what I really wanted to say: in [this classic StraightDope Column](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_250.html), Cecil discusses “a fad for comical abbreviations that flourished in the late 1830s and 1840s.” This is responsible for “OK,” which actually means “oll korrect.” He goes on to say "Many of the abbreviated expressions were exaggerated misspellings, a stock in trade of the humorists of the day. One predecessor of OK was OW, “oll wright,” and there was also KY, “know yuse,” KG, “know go,” and NS, “nuff said.” [Wolverine fans rejoice.] I think this show that this sort of stylized misspelling is not so new, much less unique to African-Americans, the projects, rap or hip-hop. ---
**Author:** ![Vixenation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/278dde/32.png) [@Vixenation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vixenation)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-the-spelling-in-rap-hip-hop-music/176968/34 "2003-05-25T14:36:22Z")
[hijack] And ‘OK’ was popularized by Martin Van Buren’s OK Club, where the letters stood for ‘Old Kinderhook’. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-the-spelling-in-rap-hip-hop-music/176968/35 "2003-05-25T14:52:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ZipperJJ \* > **In the song “Hot In Herre” they pronounce it “HERRE” and that’s why it’s spelled as such. (sort of like “HER” but with a different sounding E)** I (like everyone else in the U.S. and beyond, I imagine) have heard that song, and he absolutely does not pronounce it like that. It might be “heeeer”, but not “herrr” at all. I’d say “heeeeya” is more like it. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-the-spelling-in-rap-hip-hop-music/176968/36 "2003-05-25T15:44:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by eyedea \* > \*\*First of all, what the hell does weird al’s cd have to do with anything? That guy’s gay and white- no relevance to rap. \*\* What Weird Al has to do with it is that he made a parody of “Hot in Herre,” which lead me to the OP. As for his being gay–that would be news to his wife and daughter. Not the it makes any difference one way or the other. As for his being white–well, I’m not much of a rap fan, but it hasn’t seemed to have hurt Eminem much, success-wise. BTW, thanks a lot, everybody, for the answers and speculations. ---
**Author:** ![eyedea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ed655f/32.png) [@eyedea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eyedea)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-the-spelling-in-rap-hip-hop-music/176968/37 "2003-05-25T16:07:14Z")
I didn’t mean gay as in homo-sexual and i didn’t mean white as in his skin color. All things that you guys don’t know about. You can try and try your stupid thug and are trying to look ignorant theories, but in most cases, theyre just not true. ---
**Author:** ![CadburyAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@CadburyAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CadburyAngel)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-the-spelling-in-rap-hip-hop-music/176968/38 "2003-05-25T19:38:52Z")
So Weird Al is a merry soul and… uh… So how did you mean “white” if not as in skin color? I was perfectly happy with the variant spellings until “Hot in Herre.” The extra “r” makes for a doubled consonant, which implies a different pronunciation than the one Nelly uses. If he was singing that it was hot and hairy, that would be another situation entirely. The other variant spellings I have encountered - including the aforementioned “Dirrty” - at least SOUND the same. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-the-spelling-in-rap-hip-hop-music/176968/39 "2003-05-25T20:37:32Z")
**eyedea** , use of the word _gay_ to mean uncool or stupid or lame or pathetic is considered insulting. I take it you meant white as in culture vs. white as in color? ---
**Author:** ![Already\_in\_Use](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@Already\_in\_Use](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Already_in_Use)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-the-spelling-in-rap-hip-hop-music/176968/40 "2003-05-25T22:07:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by eyedea \* > **I didn’t mean gay as in homo-sexual and i didn’t mean white as in his skin color.** That’s glory for you! As for the OP, I concur with those posters who said that it’s not just a rap thing – some non-rap examples I can think of include Frank Zappa’s album _Over-Nite Sensation_ and song “Pygmy Twylyte” and Devo’s song “Girl U Want.” In Devo’s case, I have a feeling they were influenced by businesses advertising themselves as “While-U-Wait” and such. Creative misspellings can be done for a variety of reasons, but I would say it usually boils down to an attempt to “stylize” the phrase misspelled. In rap, it’s often an attempt to spell things the way they are pronounced in the song. That doesn’t explain “Hot in Herre,” though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-the-spelling-in-rap-hip-hop-music/176968.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-the-spelling-in-rap-hip-hop-music/176968.md?page=3)